Member Spotlight

Anne-Flore Levacher: Behind the Scenes of Artist Development and Project Management at Roche Musique

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Anne-Flore is an experienced project manager with seven years in the music industry, specializing in French electronic music. Her passion for music began in childhood, inspired by the French Touch pioneers at Ed Banger Records, with artists like Justice, Sebastian, and Breakbot shaping her early musical taste. Raised by parents who loved soul and jazz, especially Motown, she took up guitar and voice lessons, building the foundation for her future career. 

Originally from a small village in southern France, Anne-Flore moved to Paris to pursue her goal of working in music. Following an internship at the "Plages Électroniques" festival in Cannes, she joined Roche Musique in 2017, during a period of growth driven by Lo-fi and chill artists like FKJ and Dabeull. Anne-Flore quickly became a key team member, known for her dedication and strong relationships with artists and colleagues alike. 

Her career gained an international dimension after a two-year stay in Mexico, where she expanded her network and developed a particular interest in niche hybrid genres, especially within Latin and Hispanic music scenes.

Describe a day in your life working as a Head of Projects at Roche Musique

Each day is different, which is what I love most about my job. My mornings typically start with checking emails, and the afternoons are often filled with meetings.

I begin by reviewing performance data and stats, analyzing trends, playlist engagement, and marketing campaign outcomes. I stay in regular contact with key partners to discuss recent releases and plan upcoming ones—including Believe for digital distribution, Bigwax for physical distribution, Base for marketing campaigns, along with managers and PR teams.

A key part of my role involves approving mixes, masters, and tracklists, setting up digital and street rollouts, and collaborating closely with artists on artistic direction to identify the best visual partners for each release (for music videos, artwork, press shots, etc.). My role centers on coordinating all project aspects, ensuring smooth communication among everyone involved—management, legal, A&R, distribution, DSPs, community managers, and, ultimately, our fans.

I spend at least an hour a day listening to new releases, checking playlists, and reading industry news to stay current. And every Friday, I share my favorite releases with friends and colleagues on Instagram.

How is the French electronic music scene today?

French electronic music had a defining moment in the early 2010s with labels like Ed Banger, Roche Musique, Partyfine, Kitsuné, Electroposé, and YouTube channels like TheSoundYouNeed and MajesticCasual.

In 2024, however, it's harder to isolate “French electronic music” as a distinct genre, as many recent releases are heavily influenced by the UK scene (D&B, UKG, Jersey) and other rising “mainstream” styles such as Amapiano, Batida, and Baile Funk.

That said, French electronic music—especially the “French Touch”—remains a cherished cultural legacy. A recent example is Kavinsky’s "Nightcall" featuring Angèle, which received renewed attention after being featured in the Olympics closing ceremony. I believe Gen Alpha will continue to shape this genre in the coming years, blending the heritage of French electronic music with fresh, hybrid styles.

At Roche Musique, what’s your biggest focus when it comes to artist growth?

For the past 12 years, our main priority has been building long-lasting careers for our artists. We’re dedicated to taking our time to communicate, collaborate, and make informed decisions to deliver our best work. Building a loyal fanbase is a long game but essential to our approach, which is why we invest in understanding our audience as closely as possible to offer them an authentic musical experience. We also place a strong emphasis on visual artistic direction—something I believe is a key strength of ours.

What trends in electronic music are you watching closely right now?

I’m particularly interested in the emergence of hybrid genres that blend electronic music with diverse influences—like jazz-fusion, electronica-flamenco, Spanish synth-pop, French DnB, and float house. I’m always on the lookout for genres that bring groove into new, more upbeat tempos.

What project at Roche Musique (or anywhere else) are you most proud of?

The recent project I’m most proud of is Dabeull's debut album, Analog Love. This project was a bold endeavor—a funk album recorded entirely on analog equipment, including Michael Jackson’s Harrison 32-C mixing console, released in 2024. Despite the digital-heavy landscape of today’s music industry, we managed to resonate with the fanbase through minimal yet impactful marketing, all in line with the artist’s reserved style (including a billboard on Sunset Boulevard in LA). And, on a fun note, it’s easily the grooviest, most danceable album we’ve released!

For those looking to pursue a career in your field, what advice would you offer? Are there specific skills, tools, or mindsets that are crucial for success in this field?

There’s no single formula for building a career at a label, but one quality I find essential is curiosity. Curiosity is critical in this industry, where so much depends on staying fresh and discovering new artists, instruments, marketing strategies, digital tools, and even legal nuances. Especially in an independent label, we don’t have a fixed playbook, so we tailor campaigns and strategies to each artist and project. I’m a “jack of all trades” when it comes to music, and my habit of digging for new sounds—particularly through SoundCloud—was instrumental in landing my current role.

Three essential things you always carry with you in your bag

Headphones, chakra stones (heliolite, carnelian, clear quartz), and a sudoku puzzle book.

What are you listening to at the moment?

Lately, I’ve been listening to emerging Spanish artists like Judeline, Ralphie Choo, Mori, Tristan, and Amaia, as well as the latest albums from Doechii and _by.Alexander.

Connect with Anne-Flore Levacher on Instagram & LinkedIn

Member Spotlight: Abbey Road's Award-Winning Mastering Engineer Cicely Balston

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Cicely Balston is one of London’s top mastering engineers, having established herself as a leading figure in the industry since 2013. Known for her expertise across digital and vinyl formats, she has worked with a wide range of artists and genres, including David Bowie, Nubya Garcia, Eric B. & Rakim, Usher, Simply Red, Ludovico Einaudi, and Porcupine Tree. Her talent was recognized last year when she won the Music Producers Guild's Mastering Engineer of the Year award, after being shortlisted in 2021.

Cicely's portfolio also includes an impressive range of soundtracks for film and TV, such as Harry Escott’s BAFTA-winning score for Roadkill, Self Esteem’s score for the National Theatre’s Prima Facie, and Roger Goula’s All That Breathes, which won Best Documentary at both Sundance and Cannes. Recently, she’s worked on albums for Palace, girli, Witch Fever, David Gray, and Max Richter, showcasing her versatility in working with both legendary artists and up-and-coming talent.

In this Q&A, Cicely talks about her experiences in music mastering, sharing insights into her work with various artists and her time at Abbey Road Studios.

How did you begin your career in the music industry?

I always played instruments growing up, and although I loved playing I never particularly wanted to be a performer. I remember getting interested in what was going on in the background of recordings - looking at the CD liner notes and seeing all these names and roles being listed. While I was studying (I went to Surrey University and did their Tonmeister degree) I did a placement year and was able to work at a few different studios/music companies, one of which was a really lovely mastering studio/record label called Gearbox Records and it all went from there really! 

Describe a day in your life as a mastering engineer. 

I like to get in earlyish (to give me a bit of time before the emails start kicking off), I work out what I need to do for the day, write myself a list (which gets added to if things come in) and then get to it! The job changes with every project, but if I’m starting an album I get all the mixes in, take a listen through and work out where I’m going to start, what kind of sound I think I want to be going for and check if there’s anything I need to ask about on the mixes. And then usually the day will be a blend of new projects to master, either with or without the artists or producer present, cutting vinyl master lacquers, tweaks/changes on projects I’ve already started and general admin/chatting to my colleagues/drinking coffee etc

What drew you to mastering other roles in music production?

I really like the balance between technical (knowledge of formats and equipment etc) and creative in mastering - it’s amazing how much you can sculpt the sound even when just working from a mixed stereo WAV. I also love being part of the final stages of the creative process and really helping people to realise their creative vision and getting them on their way to their music being out in the world.

You’ve had the opportunity to work on high-profile projects, such as remastering David Bowie’s back catalog. Can you share one of your favorite moments in your career?

That particular project was amazing start to finish, but within that one I think listening to the original half inch tape masters of Let’s Dance, which was the album I knew best before starting the project, is something I’ll never forget! More recently I won the Music Producer’s Guild ‘Mastering Engineer of the Year’ in 2023 and walking up to collect the award having heard my name announced was an incredible feeling and a huge career highlight. 

3 essential things you always carry with you in your bag

Earplugs! I have moulded ones from ACS and I cannot recommend them highly enough, I wear them at gigs, in pubs, on the tube - both for hearing protection but also if I’m getting a bit overwhelmed. Headphones - I have some Sonos headphones that I like, or smaller Fairphone ones for out and about. And I generally have some lip balm somewhere on my person - long hours in air conditioned rooms leaves me needing it! 

One piece of advice you'd give your younger self

I’d tell myself to work hard, but to feel more confident to do what’s right for you - sometimes turning down an opportunity that isn’t quite right actually leaves space for opportunities that fit you better to come in. 

What are you listening to at the moment?

Right now I’m in a guitar band renaissance which is involving a lot of Green Day, anything by Illuminati Hotties and there’s a new EP from Charly Bliss that I’ve been playing on repeat.

NikNak: the Turntablist Embracing Afrofuturism and Blade Runner-Inspired Soundscapes

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Photo credit: Emilly Obeng

NikNak, a musical polymath excelling in composing, sound design, DJing, and turntablism, made history in 2020 as the first Black turntablist to receive the prestigious Oram Award. Known for her albums, remixes, and performances, she has gained worldwide recognition and praise from DJ Mag, Clash, The Wire, and Resident Advisor. Her debut album Bashi received critical acclaim, and her fourth studio album, Ireti is available now on Matthew Herbert’s Accidental Records.

Ireti embraces Afrofuturism and explores the intersection of humanity and technology. Inspired by films and video games like Blade Runner and Cyberpunk 2077, it tells a dystopian story about reclaiming humanity from machines. “If there was a Black Blade Runner, this would be the soundtrack,” says NikNak.

The album features collaborations with Agaama, Cassie Kinoshi, Chisara Agor, Grifton Forbes-Amos, and SlowPitchSound, blending turntablism, experimental synthesis, haunting vocals, and dynamic electronic elements. It spans genres like jazz, jungle, experimental, and trip-hop.

Tracks like "This Pile Of Rubble is More Human" and "12000 RPM" depict urban chaos and high-octane action. “I wanted to create the sound of the world collapsing,” NikNak explains, using manipulated fireworks sounds to evoke a war-like atmosphere. "You Were Supposed To Be Good" features Grifton Forbes-Amos and Cassie Kinoshi on horns and saxophone, enhancing the track’s impact.

NikNak is touring the UK and Europe throughout spring and summer to celebrate the album's release.

Your new album, "Ireti," delves into Afrofuturism and explores the intersection of humanity and technology. Can you tell us more about how this concept influenced your creative process?

In one way it was from seeing a growing increase in AI availability and how it’s been clashing with artists, resulting in works being stolen or manipulated, and even in some cases big organizations choosing it as an option instead of paying artists. In another way, it was from being surrounded by the ways we’ve seen it be depicted in media thus far but without much Black representation - Blade Runner for example. 

Your music is known for its fusion of turntablism, experimental synthesis, vocals, and electronic elements. For those unfamiliar with turntablism, could you explain what it is and how you first got involved with it?

Turntablism is a term originally coined by DJ Babu where a turntable is being used to creatively manipulate sounds into melodies and rhythms. It’s more commonly associated with hiphop where people would scratch onto a hiphop beat, but it’s also known in more experimental and avant garde styles of music too. I first got involved with it during my undergraduate studies in Leicester via a really engaging lecture from Dr. Sophy Smith, but also through working in a bar and watching DJs scratch funk and hiphop tracks every Friday night. It was a particularly important time and everything kind of fell into place because I was learning how two seemingly different groups of people use the same tech to create/play music with. 

How has your approach to turntablism evolved over the years, and in what ways has it influenced the production and storytelling in your latest album, "Ireti"?

Getting rid of the imposter syndrome for one has been a massive impact, and realizing that I don’t have to be locked into a specific genre or style to do it too. I love playing with the traditional scratch samples everyone is somewhat familiar with if the idea calls for it at the moment, but I equally love playing with everyday sounds too. That doesn’t make me any more or less of a turntablist, I just have my own approach; the same way that if you give the exact same guitar to Jimi Hendrix and Eric Clapton for example, you’ll get two entirely different sounds. Over the years, I’d say my sound has grown in its confidence as I’ve grown confident in my ideas and ways I want to express and share them, hence the creations of Ireti, Sankofa and other projects. 

What drew you to explore and fuse Afrofuturism in your music?

I’m a nerd and it’s taken me a long time to learn about other Black nerds who create worlds in their own ways too, whether it’s on purpose or spontaneous. The fact that there are authors, scholars, comic book artists and more that are actively trying to contribute to diversifying these worlds in myriads of ways is really important to me, especially as I didn't see much of it growing up. My sources of representation in these worlds was primarily Storm from the X-men… and while later in life, I can say there are artists like Erykah Badu and Sun Ra who have these elements in their music, I didn’t know what the vocabulary was until much later in life, and that’s the problem. I guess what drew me to it is the sense of finally having a language or term that encompasses a chunk of the things I’m passionate and excited about, that also means that I don’t have to shrink in some way to fit into it either. I wouldn’t necessarily say it’s a “fusion of Afrofuturism with my music”, but instead it’s a realization that I can tell stories and/or ask questions within the realm of Afrofuturism, with genuine interest and without trying to be something I’m not. 

What's your top advice for young people wanting to become music producers/singer-songwriters etc.

Make what you want to make. There’s no point in trying to emulate sounds that don’t resonate for you for the sake of it being popular or wanting to go viral. That in itself means it’ll be somewhat soulless with a mandate of wanting to fit in. What if you don’t want to do that? Play with sounds and ideas, and see what happens after the fact. You’ll be surprised with how much you’ve changed as you grow and mature - so will your sounds and ideas. Don’t lose sight of that, or the fact that at the end of the day, we’re all just messing around with sounds and noises. 

  • Interview by ninakeh for shesaid.so

Member Spotlight: Stef Pascual

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Stef Pascual is Digital Marketing Director for the UK and Europe at Concord Label Group. She works on frontline and catalogue campaigns across the Concord roster, that includes artists like Chelsea Wolfe, Killer Mike, NOISY, Pierce The Veil, Evanescence, Hermanos Gutierrez, HEALTH and many more. She’s also one half of the independent label Silent Cult, home to artists like Mimi Barks and Miss Vincent.

Stef started in the music industry as an intern at a record label in Barcelona, and when she moved to London she found in state51 the perfect company to develop her career and push for innovation, fairness and change in the industry. Afterwards, she headed the Digital department at Essential / Sony Red, working on marketing and strategy for labels like Cooking Vinyl, Full Time Hobby and FatCat, and campaigns for Skepta and Alter Bridge.

She became Head of Digital at Crown Talent / Talent Everywhere in 2017, working with clients like Becky Hill, Ella Henderson, Fusion Festival and 9 to 5 the Musical. In 2021 she joined the marketing agency Deviate Digital, and as their General Manager she led campaigns for PIAS, AWAL, Kilimanjaro and Various Artists Management to name a few.

How did you get your start in music? 

I found out pretty early in life that sadly I don’t have any musical talent whatsoever, but music was my biggest passion, and I was adamant I was going to work in the industry somehow.

Back in my hometown, Zaragoza, I started a music fanzine with friends and helped book a couple of gigs, but it wasn’t until I was 18 and moved to Barcelona that I landed an internship in an independent record label, and did every job that they threw at me. Literally EVERY JOB: from preparing riders backstage to packing orders, from data entry to flyering at gigs and selling records at festivals.

Then I moved to London and after a year working at a Virgin Megastores shop (still a music job I guess!) I was hired as an intern at The state51 Conspiracy, which was a dream company to land on, as I learned a lot and ended up becoming their Head of Digital. 

I owe a lot to these 2 internship opportunities at the beginning of my career.

What inspired you to pursue a career in digital marketing within the music industry?

Back in Barcelona in the early 2000s I was lucky enough to attend a conference where Scott Cohen spoke about digital distribution, and it blew my mind. It sounded fresh and new, with plenty of opportunities to innovate and be creative.

I think that because it was so new not many people cared about it, so there was space for the new generations to jump in. 

My days were spent in IRC chats, Audiogalaxy and MySpace, and with my academic background being Marketing, PR and Advertising, I developed a skillset that seemed to fit right into the digital marketing world. I find it’s the perfect playground for you if you are a bit of a data nerd with a creative heart! 

What key skills or qualities are essential for success in your sector?

I’d say that curiosity is definitely a key trait to work in Digital Marketing. Always being in learning mode will help you to stay up to date with the daily changes in the industry, but also to nurture your creativity with findings from different industries. 

You also want to be a people person, and learn from different audiences, getting to know other types of people outside your music industry bubble. Most people are not thinking about music 24/7 (I know, shocking!) and we need to know how to reach them and get their attention.

Another skill that definitely comes in handy is data analysis. You’ll need to deal with data from socials, advertising and consumption daily, and if you are not keen on handling numbers and finding insights this job will definitely be a drag.

What aspect of your work brings you the most joy, and conversely, what aspect presents the greatest challenge for you?

Due to the nature of Digital Marketing, we can assess the results of our efforts almost immediately. I find it incredibly rewarding when an artist improves their KPIs on socials following my recommendations, or when a specific creative asset I requested performs much better than other ones provided, for example. Especially if my ideas sounded a bit risky or out-there at first, seeing positive results attributable to my input is the best form of validation.

I find one of the biggest challenges we face in Digital Marketing is to justify certain strategies. Some artists and management teams want to stick to the devil they know and spend on advertising for example, when they really should be focusing resources on content creation or audience growth. I approach my campaigns as a long-term effort when possible, and it is very rare that one specific advertising campaign or activation leads to success, but it’s something that is sometimes expected from us and can be very challenging.

What are your top 2 strategies when it comes to creating a successful campaign?

It is key to have as much visibility as possible of the full campaign and collaborate with all teams involved. There’s no point in doing a great digital activation if the artist can’t support on socials, or to define audiences for advertising based on consumption and engagement if the PR team is trying to reposition an artist and targeting new media outlets. Everything needs to work in sync for a successful campaign.

I also think that all innovation should be guided by data insights and the specific needs of each campaign. It also means we need to push ourselves further to be more creative when there are goals to meet and restrictions on what can be done, for example in terms of resources.

Tips for anyone who wants to get into your industry

Compared to other industries, I think that Digital Marketing has low barriers to entry as there is plenty of knowledge freely available online, and you don’t need much to get started.

I am very grateful for my formal qualifications, but in this world it is definitely more valuable to have up-to-date knowledge and experience.

Learn how to edit videos, use different social platforms to understand what works, open ad accounts to start testing small spends and connect with developing artists that would be keen on collaborating with you to get you started.

Once you think you are ready for an internship or an entry-level job, do your research about campaigns that caught your eye and find out who was behind them in order to approach them. Remember that networking should be about connection, not so much about hustling, so reach out to people that you’ve done your research on politely, and ask for a quick call or a piece of specific advice. Think about building up relationships and not just emailing your CV, as if there’s no vacancies available your email will end up straight in the bin.


Tips for staying grounded on a tough day

I learned the value of working on my wellbeing the hard way. It’s easy to get excited, put more hours in, say yes to everything and get lost in the madness.

My best piece of advice to stay grounded and avoid burning-out  is to make sure you check in with yourself at least once per day - How are you feeling today? Is there anything that can wait for tomorrow? Have you planned something on your day that makes you feel good?

Also don’t underestimate the value of exercise, even light mobility workouts or stretching will do wonders for our mental health and anxiety.

Connect with Stef Pascual on Instagram & LinkedIn

Interview: DJ Paulette

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DJ Paulette

From iconic B2Bs to legendary residencies, DJ Paulette has dominated the dance scene for 30+ years. She's an award-winning DJ and recipient of the DJ Mag Top 100 Lifetime Achievement Award and a force in disco, house, and techno.

DJ Paulette's latest achievement is the release of her book "Welcome to the Club: The Life and Lessons of a Black Woman DJ". The book marks the debut of DJ Paulette as the first Black woman to pen her experiences in EDM and house music.

Within the pages, she shares her journey, recounting personal stories and engaging in conversations with accomplished women in the industry. The book unveils the industry's exclusivity, tackling issues of misogyny, racism, and classism. Endorsed by numerous industry figureheads and celebrated Manchester legends, the book features a foreword by Annie Mac.

Hi, I am DJ Paulette. I'm a DJ by trade. Can you believe it's an actual full time career? I also present radio shows. I work for BBC Radio 6 Music, have a monthly show on Reform Radio and a Global Residency which you can find on Apple Music. I’m Manchester born and bred and my family's all here. I live here. Oh, and I'm a published author. I've got a book out in January 23rd called “Welcome to the Club: The life and lessons of a Black Woman DJ”.

What were your first steps in this industry?

When I was 18 years old, I started working at Piccadilly Radio. I sent in an application for this new show, which was a teen magazine/lifestyle show. I sprayed my application with CK’s Obsession perfume (you have to get noticed in this game) and they liked my application, I was invited to audition and I was chosen. It was a youth programme but I absolutely loved it. I was working with two bright young stars, Chris Evans and Becky Want. The programme taught me how to interview people. It taught me how to go to gigs and write good scripts and reviews for clubs and listings. It introduced me to the celebrity side, because I got to interview people like Martin Fry from ABC.  It really gave me a taste of the music industry. But aside from that, my mum was a singer, she sang jazz and cabaret, so all of the family were really musically trained, we were all into music, buying records, that kind of thing. I'd also been clubbing since I was 15 years old.

Then I sang in bands and got fired a lot. Not because I was rubbish. Whenever I'd be in rehearsals, I'd always be in tracksuits. So when it came to the gigs and I dress up like that, it was like “you're not really a backing singer, you're fired”, which wasn't fair. So when DJing came along, I thought this is a way of performing and a way of delivering my music that is down to me. Nobody could fire me. I could look how I wanted. I could play what I wanted. And I could just entertain people for as many hours as I was put behind the decks.

Years later, a friend of mine called Tommy introduced me to a woman called Adele. She was putting on a party at The Number One Club where I was dancing. Adele had run out of money for a big DJ name and she was looking for someone to play records for the night. Tommy told her that I had lots of records. So we met, we talked about music and for some reason (was she desperate or did she think I'd be good at it, I don't know) she chose me to do it. I was studying for my degree at the time, so I thought, I could earn money doing something that I really love, that I wanted to do. I loved clubs, I loved clubbing. I'd never DJed before. I didn't have my own decks or anything like that, but I just thought it'd be a good idea. She paid me 30 pounds (from 9pm till two in the morning). It was 1992, so that was actually quite decent money (well, it was better than nothing). But then I went out and spent my entire grant money on records. The rest is history.

From there, I met Paul and Lucy (A Bit Ginger Productions), they were putting on a new party at the Hacienda called Flesh, and they needed somebody to host their second room. I was suddenly thrown into the deep end and DJed once a month at the Hacienda downstairs.

It was a big gay night in Manchester and attitudes to anything gay in the 90s weren’t that cool, so I hid it. I didn't tell anyone at Uni. I was the boring, married, mature student, so if anyone from my class ever turned up at Flesh, I hid from them.

Then it - and I -  became more public as time went on, because I was good at what I did. And I became a face in Manchester. So it's like, well, you can hide but not for long. I became successful and I started DJing in Nottingham, at Venus in Leeds at Vague and started moving around. And then the next thing I knew I was being picked to DJ at Heaven in London, at the ZAP Club in Brighton. When I graduated, I intended to become a teacher, a professor, you know, do an MA, go the full academic route, but DJing came along and that was the end of that.

Your book “Welcome to the Club” is the first self-penned book by a black female DJ, can you share with us the inspiration behind writing this book?

My inspiration for writing “Welcome to the Club” came from many places. First of all, lots of people asked me why, if I've been doing this for 30 years, why has it taken me so long to get any kind of flowers for the work that I've been doing over the years? I needed to explain certain challenging aspects of my career that were hidden and also put my history out there because it wasn't out there. People couldn't really understand anything about me because if you Googled me, there wasn't really that much information. 16 years in Europe had created a bit of a blind spot. So I thought, either I could wait for somebody to write a book about me or I could do it myself. And I'm very much a self-starter. 

I didn't pitch this book to anybody. The publishers came to me with the idea during the second lockdown. I've been really mercenary about saying ‘yes’ to this publisher, because I knew that this book was going to go into the libraries. So then history is set. It's not just an ordinary book. It is an academic book, which means it goes into every university library from here (UK) to the United States to France, to wherever. I'm making a point of creating a history for this particular subject. And it's never been done before.

I also became aware that it wasn't just me that had the hidden histories. There were a lot of other women around me that had hidden histories that weren't counted into the development or the evolution of the culture and I wanted to tackle that subject as well. When people say, “oh, we've never heard of you”, it’s because you're not included in the story. It was important to me to put a story there to create some kind of balance or be a counterbalance to all the other books that didn't mention and all the other books that didn't talk about this particular thing.

Another key factor was writing and working through the pandemic. Nobody is talking about the pandemic because it has only just happened. I wanted to talk about how we, as people and as creatives, dealt with the pandemic. As the events and hospitality and as the industry had to deal with the pandemic; the rules, the regulations, the financial implications, all of that. There are two chapters that really talk about what happened and how we came out of it. It's a really strong Manchester story because we were kind of the guinea pigs for the government with all of the rules and regulations. It also talks about the limitations, not earning any money, not getting any support and it talks about mental health.

In the book, you have spoken to a few very influential women from the industry.

A lot of the time women work for companies where it's like “maybe they'll do it one day” or “maybe one day I'll get the award”. This is why my book is really throwing a brick through that window. We as women have to stop accepting that being written out, not getting our flowers is okay. It’s not okay.

I decided to talk to a big group of my peers (Jamz Supernova, Jaguar, Caroline Prothero, Lakuti, Marcia Carr, Gladys Pizarro, Judy Griffith from fabric, DJ Colleen Cosmo Murphy, Sophie Bee, the creative director of the Warehouse Project, Eruica McKoy, NIKS (from Black Artists Database) a lot of very successful women. I found out about what their experiences and challenges have been (working in the music industry) and lots of things became apparent. There are ways that women are treated in the industry that just don't happen for men. Men never have to think about certain issues; about how they are promoted through the industry or how they are always going to have to knock the door down.

I wanted the reader to hear other voices and not just have the words pouring out of my mouth.  It's not just my experience that you get to read in the book, you get to read lots of other people's experiences. We sat together and discussed the frequently asked questions that we always get when we're interviewed; is it difficult being a woman, a female DJ, you know, the gendering of the job?

Why is DJing even gendered? We all do the same things. We use the same USB sticks. We use exactly the same equipment. There is no reason why this job should be separated into male and female DJs. We are all DJs but we are not paid on the same level. We're not given the same billing. We're not given the same breaks, even when it comes down to branding and sponsorship. We're not given the same opportunities or deals.

There's the other side of it where biological and physical things can happen for women that can signal the end of their career. Pregnancy, breakups, menopause, ageing. For some reason, 40 seems to be the cutoff where women start suddenly not getting any work anymore, whereas guys can work for their entire life without really having to think “Am I over the hill?” You know?

It views that aspect, through a lot of other women's eyes. And one of the things that became clear is that ageism is a really annoying factor. People just don't like successful older women. I mean, Madonna has it, (you know, she's in her 60s and people are still trying to say she is too old, should stop and isn't relevant). It's like hold on a second. Why isn’t Madonna relevant? Because Piers Morgan says so? A white cis middle aged straight man? How many column inches are wasted on trying to say that this woman is not relevant after 40 years smashing practically every glass ceiling and leaving a legacy that every newcomer somehow uses as a blueprint. She has spent years in the music industry breaking barriers, waving the flag for LGBTQ+ rights before anybody else did it. What is wrong with people?

Amelie Lens has had a very public pregnancy whilst simultaneously deejaying. And yet, the initial blowback on social media was misogynistic and disgusting. It's like, where does anyone think they came from? How can seeing a pregnant woman in front of the decks be disgusting? How do any of us even get here? Do you think you came from a spaceship? Then there's the other side of it. Are people just going to consider her a mom now. Is she different? Is she going to be treated differently? Of course you are going to be treated differently by your fans because it does suddenly change your status. A lot of your male fans might suddenly find you unattractive because you've had a child. Now you're a mature woman not a party girl.

It was important to have this conversation with Jamz Supernova. It was important to have that conversation with Marcia Carr, Kath McDermott and Colleen Cosmo Murphy. They can tell you the truth about how sickness overtook them or how agents wouldn't book them.

It's really interesting to talk about Jamz’ case because it gives us hope that there is a way through it. It's easier now than it was for Colleen Cosmo Murphy and Marcia Carr when they literally had to stop work for three, four years while they reared their children, whereas Jamz has gone straight back to work. It's interesting hearing them discuss what that journey is. The book talks about all of those things and the psychological impact of going through that and the push to come out on the other side.

How do you feel about the support and recognition you've received?

In my 30 year career I have managed to get two gold records and four awards. There's loads of people that have got way more than me, but then there's loads of people that haven't got one. So I should enjoy and celebrate winning those awards and gold records. In the first DJ magazine top 100 poll in 1993 (which wasn't voted before by the public, it was voted for by the editorial team), I was in the top 100. I totally forgot that until Carl Loben reminded me. People asked me why I became the DJ that I am. And that was actually part of it, suddenly my career as a local DJ from Manchester went national then international.

Then in 2022, getting a lifetime achievement award was massive. No woman has ever won it before. No Black woman has won this  before. All the other people that have won the Lifetime Achievement Award are male.

And this year (2023), the winner was Carl Cox. So I'm kind of up there with a lot of people who I really look up to in the industry. In France, I won two awards and was nominated as the best DJ in the country and I won alongside David Guetta and Avicii. I've won a lot of awards for doing what I do. Consequently, it's another reason why I have continued to do this job that I have been publicly and professionally recognised at every step of the way for the work that I do. And for how I've inspired people and how I educated people through music. 

In your three decade long career, you've navigated through the highs and the lows of the music industry. How did these experiences shape your perspective on the industry, especially concerning issues like exclusion, misogyny, racism, and classism, which you confront in your book?

I've managed over 30 years to forge a career with the help of a lot of amazing people - Giles Peterson, Dave Piccioni, Caroline Prothero, Defected Records, Simon Dunmore - I've had a lot of people backing me overseas like Radio FG, Nervous records and BBCM in Montreal.  I've never talked about that. In 2018 I did an exhibition at the Lowry art gallery in Manchester and it was fantastic -they had 6000 people through the doors. It was one of the most successful gallery interruptions, and I talked about some of these issues. The racism, the sexism, but it was in a very soft form, and I didn't have the hashtag, BLM (Black Lives Matter). I was really not able to be fully open about the bad experiences I've had in the music industry until 2020, when George Floyd was murdered. 

I didn't have the voice to say, “Hey, you know, we're being passed over. We're being left out. Promoters aren’t booking us. Advertisers aren't using us, TV and radio isn’t using us”. I didn't have the vocabulary for it. But then as we hit 2020, and everything happened with George Floyd, all of a sudden there was an openness, because we were in lockdown. People were a lot more focused and a lot more open about listening to what had been going on. And people were thinking, how can we come back from this? How can we make this right?

I think my experiences in the music industry suddenly snapped into a sharper focus. I was able to articulate what had happened for me in a clearer way. Suddenly, the bad experiences became learning experiences that I could put down the well.

I did an interview a couple of days ago and they said they felt that I'm really angry in the book. I'm like, I'm not really angry. But actually I'm allowed to be. Wouldn't you be, if this had happened to you? Wouldn't you be if you realised that you weren't getting any work and neither were your sisters or brothers? We were all being left off / dropped from (artist) rosters. We were all being left off the lineups and we couldn't say anything. So it addresses all of those issues.

Even though those things happened, I don't come away with the ‘oh my god, everything's so bad and I detest the industry’ bitter complex. I'm not that kind of person. I take those experiences and think “how can I fix this” or “how can I work within this industry”. How can I navigate it in a way that I'm not just sidestepping it, or stepping over it or going around it? I'm saying, this is here. And this is how I'm going to deal with it. I'm going to make sure that people know how to remove those barriers, because I can't do that alone. Somebody on the inside has to help. This is the problem with systemic issues. It's the structure we need to change, not the people.

How did you find the resilience and passion to overcome challenges, and what kept you motivated during the toughest moments of your career?

I've talked a lot about what the challenges were, but don't get me wrong. I have had an incredible journey. I've enjoyed every second of it. I think that's probably also the reason why I've been doing it for 30 years; it is because I absolutely love it. I've always said to myself I will stop when I have no enthusiasm. I will stop when I don't like it. That's why I don't work in PR anymore. I hated that job in the end, so I stopped doing it. I'm good at it, but it really wasn't for me, I didn't enjoy the culture.

But music, DJing, performing, doing radio, sharing new music with people. I absolutely buzz off that every day when I get to play music, whether it's on the radio or in front of a crowd, one person 10 people 10,000 people. I love playing and sharing music. If I'm in a room with two people and we're exchanging “Oh, have you heard this? Have you heard that? What about this?”

Music is my absolute life. It's my lifeblood. It's coursing through my veins, it's in the DNA, it has everything to do with who I am.

And that in itself makes the experience just incredible. I've played music all over the world. I've been to Africa, America, South America, Asia, Bangkok, Kuala Lumpur, India. I have played music to 1000s of people in Paris on the Champs Des Mars overlooking the Eiffel Tower. I’ve had some mad experiences. I've had people queuing for gigs for me like Beatlemania, when I was in Paris (nobody knows about those years but I was absolutely at the top of the game, playing alongside all the heavy hitters). I've met and worked with some phenomenal people. I started off working at the Hacienda and last year I played a B2B with The Blessed Madonna at Homobloc and I still absolutely love it. For people to pay for me to go and play music in front of crowds who pay to come and see me?. I mean, that’s the maddest, most beautiful job.

I am doing something I absolutely love, so you can imagine when we hit lockdown, the impact of that on anybody's head. And the thought of losing that was just like, You know what? No way. Absolutely no way that's happening. So then the streams came; Boiler Room, Glitterbox, DJ Mag, He She They, United We Stream, Hacienda. I didn't do any “|little in my bedroom streams” for a reason. I did the streams for big organisations that were doing it properly, that were paying the artists, that were paying PRS (Foundation), that were raising money for charities or benevolent / harship funds. I worked for the people who were trying to keep the industry together and not just trying to keep themselves going.

Even though I was going through a really bad time in my life, it was also having a really good time. The memories coming through lockdown, specifically of those streams, were really good and they helped to lift me up. I still get stopped in the street by people who are still watching my Glitterbox streams, or repeatedly watching the Stream GM livestreams and say “You don't realise how that impacted me". You don't realise how that helped me”.

The message through the lockdown was how music heals. Playing music is one of the key things for community and for mental health.

It’s eight years since I've come back to Manchester (I got here in 2015): in the beginning I didn't know anybody at all. And in seven years, I’ve got to meet a wonderful community, meet people like Neil (Clampdown Records), Sophie Bee, LUKE UNA, Chris Massey, Amy Wainwright, Gina Breeze, Kamila Rymajdo, Sno, Mr Scruff. I've met such a phenomenal community of people who every day are trying to get music and their creative ideas out into the masses and keep it there.

What message do you hope it sends to aspiring DJs? Especially those who may face similar challenges as you did?

First of all, I say that I forgot that I was in the top 100. I really did forget it and I didn't take it as seriously as maybe I should have. Or I didn't take it as seriously then as people take it now, because, I didn't know what I was doing when I started this. I didn't even have my own decks. Now, it is more of a business.

So the advice I would give to people is take it as seriously as you need to take it. If you want to make a career out of it, make a career out of it, but be very focused about it. You can be giddy and you can enjoy it certainly, but have a plan and ask for help, which I didn't do. Always ask for help. Find your tribe. Build your team.

I've learned that everyone that's in the top 10 of the DJ Top 100, really wanted that #1 slot. They said “I want to be the number one” and started out with that in mind. They had a goal. I say, maybe you don't want to be number one, but definitely have a goal, have a point where you can hit that mark. Get people on your side who can help you to get there and who will talk about you. Even if you haven't got an agent and you haven't got a manager, you need people around you that are going to support you and help you to ascend through the ranks. That is the difference between people who don't get in the charts and the people who do. Build a team around you that supports you and helps you to realise your dreams. Find those people.

What are your best tips for any person that wants to enter this industry?

The most important thing, and I get asked this question all the time, even in 2023 I get stopped by women men or non-binary people. How do we do it? How did you do it? And the most important thing more than anything, is just do it. I didn't know how to DJ when I first picked up a record. I didn't have the equipment. But it didn't stop me. It really didn't stop me going to a club and putting a record on in front of people.

And don't be afraid of making a mistake. Everybody makes mistakes. That's how we learn. I've learned how to DJ by making mistakes.

I learned how to present on radio by making mistakes and even last night I made a tonne of mistakes (I learned that I shouldn’t mention brands on the BBC). You should always be prepared to make mistakes and be prepared to learn. Never stop learning. If you want to produce, there's a tonne of tutorials on YouTube. And if you need to throw away the instruction booklet, I believe DJ Pierre never read the instruction booklet which is why he could make the machine do what it had never done before. J Dilla as well. He threw away the instruction booklet and just figured out his way into it himself and created a sound for himself.

Find your own way into it. There are a tonne of courses, a tonne of academies, physical and online. Those colleges will educate you to work within the music industry so book a course, go to college if you can afford it. If you really can't afford it, there are enough free tutorials for you to follow. Get that information in your head and then just go out and do it. Push yourself forward.

What so you want people to take away from your book?

It's not a dark story. It's a very positive, uplifting story. It's a celebration of what it has taken to go through life with the evolution of the electronic dance music industry, with the evolution from vinyl to USB, with the evolution from there being no female DJs to being more female DJs, with the evolution from having no internet to (the industry being) really internet led. The changes and the evolution of the industry and the positive developments of it.

What I want people to take away from it more than anything is that they should get involved, be as involved and engaged with it as I have been for the last 30 years and thus help it to continue. I want people to realise there are no rules and it is never too late. If nobody new (young or old) comes along, it stagnates and then we are in trouble. So I want people to join in. I want people to go “yeah, but I want to do it this way”. Or “what if we do it that way”. If they can think of a new way to do it, do it that way, be the new breed, you know, be the new blood. I want to encourage and inspire people to take what I know and run with it. Go harder, better and faster.

  • Interview by ninakeh for shesaid.so

Member Spotlight #045: Nikki McNeil

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With over 25 years of experience in the music industry, Nikki McNeill is the founder of Global Publicity which specialises in worldwide PR and communications for music, festivals and events.

Nikki is passionate about the global music scene and only works with clients she truly believe in, giving her an authentic voice that rises above the rest. Having earned a reputation for hard work, honesty and professionalism, she is dedicated to achieving the best results with campaigns that cross borders with clients including Amsterdam Dance Event, A Greener Future, ESNS and Night Time Industries Association.

Nikki co-runs shesaid.so Brighton with Shino Parker.

How did you get your start in music?

I knew I wanted to work in the music industry when I was at secondary school and  I did a few work experience placements at a local radio station called Chiltern FM and Sony Music. After I left University, my first job was as a receptionist at V2 Music as I couldn’t type fast enough to be a PA so that was the only route to get started when I started out. I am really glad things have moved forward and there are more opportunities for young people get started in different parts of the industry.

Describe a day in your life as the founder of Global Publicity.

A day in my life of my work probably isn’t as glamorous and exciting as many people might think.  The majority of the time I am sat in front of my laptop with 50 plus tabs open 24/7.  When I’m working at an event it is the complete opposite and it's like a whirlwind where your feet don’t touch the ground. I am mostly running around making sure I am supporting the team to get everything done and also making sure all the media are happy, enjoying the event and getting what they need, whether it’s interviews or photos or their transport to the airport.. 

Having founded Global Publicity in 2007, what inspired you to take the leap and start your own venture, and how has the company evolved since its inception?

I’d never thought of working for myself, but quite a few friends and colleagues suggested that it would be a good idea and that I could do it. It took me a while to believe in myself and go for it, but it’s probably one of the things I am most proud of as I have now been running my own business for 16 years.

At the start, I worked on campaigns for artists and events, but over the years I have gravitated more towards events and festivals as I love music and travel and experience new places and cultures.

I have always loved working at industry conferences and supporting the industry. During the pandemic, that feeling was compounded when I was able to work with the Night Time Industries Association and use my skills to help the industry even more.  It gives me a huge sense of satisfaction to be able to help others and be part of campaigns that help and support the industry I love being part of.

Can you describe a project you worked on that you are particularly proud of, and why it was important to you?

It’s hard to think of a specific project that means a lot to me as I only work on projects now that I really believe in as it makes me happier working with people and on projects that I like  and am passionate about, which then also gives you a much more authentic voice if you are working with clients you really believe in.

I think I would say my work with the Night Time Industries Association, as I fell into it by accident by wanting to help and support the industry during the pandemic and it showed me that I could really help make a difference. One of the campaigns I worked on was the #letusdance campaign which enabled businesses in the electronic music sector also apply for CRF funding. It proves that when the industry comes together, change can happen for the better and it feels good to be part of a team who are so passionate about supporting the industry.  I have learned a lot from the team at the NTIA and when you can continue to be inspired and learn in your work that is also very fulfilling and give you a strong sense of purpose. 

Given your extensive experience in the music industry, what significant changes do you foresee in your area of specialization in the coming years? 

The music media landscape is constantly evolving and changing with many print media publications lost over the years. More recently though, there has been a trend of some print editions coming back such as The Face, Rolling Stone, Disco Pogo etc. It’s really hard to predict but there has also been a rise in paid for deals for coverage and it feels like that will continue to rise as media need marketing spend to survive.

There is a lot of talk about AI and how that will impact PR in the future as it can be used to help with press releases and reports and tracking coverage as well as historical data analysis, tracking market trends etc.

As someone who has played a role in promoting international events and festivals to a global audience, what strategies do you find most effective in creating a significant and lasting impact on a worldwide scale?

Press trips are still very effective as they enable journalists to experience the event first hand and take in the atmosphere, meet the local people and learn about the local music scene and culture etc. Giving them unique experience they will remember forever is still very valuable.

Considering your success in the music industry, what advice do you have for aspiring professionals looking to establish themselves in a similar career path?

Work experience and mentor programs are the best way to get started as you will get valuable experience, but also make real life connections. Be brave and attend networking events or talks and workshops too as you ca also meet new people there and find job opportunities.

3 values that guide your life

On my company website I have included the words ‘being honest and professional are important to us’, as these are values that are important to me. There is a lot of bullshit in the music industry so it is important to me to be respected and trusted. So I suppose the most important values that I follow in life are integrity, hard work and loyalty.

Your top tips for staying grounded on a challenging day

If I am having a challenging day I would get in touch with a valued and respected friend or colleague for advise. My networks are priceless for support and I am lucky with the connections I have built up over the years that I have some amazing people who are always there for me. I would advise everyone to build a good support network around them of trusted friends and colleagues.

Music Insider: Janice Wang

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Janice Wang is the VP, Partner Acquisition and Success at Venice Music, a music company that provides independent artists a global distribution platform and essential resources to build their career. From the beginnings at Venice Music, Janice collaborated with the technology team to build and refine the distribution platform, signed the very first artists and labels to Venice, managed commercial partnerships, and spearheaded international streaming.

She now leads A&R, artist and label partnerships, and corporate partnerships at Venice Music. Janice previously managed artists at Quincy Jones Productions (Dirty Loops, Jonah Nilsson, Clark Beckham, Eli Teplin) and Atom Factory (Kamasi Washington).

Janice's passion for music reflects through her continued commitment to guide and empower artists in their entrepreneurial journey, so we can collectively leave a lasting impact on the world through music.

Describe a day in your life as VP, Partner Acquisition and Success

Each day is different! But what excites me is listening to music, providing guidance and ideas to artists/artist teams, and engaging with the variety of music communities and organizations looking to educate and elevate artists in the music community. Bringing feedback from our partners back to our team helps to ensure we address the needs of the community we're building for and are constantly improving. Anything that allows me to help contribute to the growth and success of artists is a fulfilling feeling.

How did you get your start in music?

Before even getting into the music industry, I'd volunteer to help with artists' merch at their show when they were in-town. Being at live shows always showed me the profound impact music has on individuals. From these events, I was determined to pursue a career in working with artists to be a part of this beautiful human experience and an internship was my first step into the industry.

3 values that guide your life

1. Honesty - as it builds trust and open communication.

2. Kindness - treat people as you'd like to be treated!

3. Perseverance - there will always be ups and downs in life, but moving forward allows for growth and continued success in the future.

Tips for staying grounded on a tough day

Recognizing what a blessing it is to be a part of this incredibly diverse industry, collaborating with talented artists, creative thinkers, and business professionals on the daily. Focusing on the positive helps shift perspective and reminds you to look at the bigger picture.

Tips for anyone that wants to get into your industry

Make genuine connections while you network. Show people who you are, your interests, and what sets you apart. Offer recommendations and highlight how your passion and skills can add to the team! One piece of advice you'd give your younger self Celebrate the wins along the way, both big and small! It's easy to be caught up in the day-to-day, the hustle and bustle of the business, but these celebrations will become cherished memories. Enjoy the journey as suddenly you'll look back and another decade of life has flown by!

Venice Music is offering our members a 20% discount of their ‘Essentials, Grow+ and Pro’ services for the first year of the membership. This is a great opportunity to get your / your artist's music distributed, sync licensed, and strategically promoted by a team of experts.

shesaid.so members and allies can access the discount on the Community Hub.

Member Spotlight #44: Jennifer Justice

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Hi, I’m Jennifer Justice, Founder & CEO of the Justice Dept, Host of Takin’ Care of Lady Business Podcast.

The Justice Dept is a Business Strategy & Business Development Consulting Firm and a law firm which represents female-founded companies, female executives and talent to help them maximize their wealth and increase their value. More money in women’s hands, means more choices and freedoms for everyone. I spent 17 years solely in the music industry as a music attorney representing everyone from Mark Ronson to Jay Z to Beyonce as their entertainment attorney and as an executive at Roc Nation from its inception. I had a passion for gender equality and decided to take everything I learned from a business, strategy and legal angle and help women get rich.

Describe a day in your life as a founder

6:30 am

I have a very busy morning because I'm hosting around 60 women for an investor breakfast for one of my clients, West-bourne. West-bourne was born to create a go-to brand for plant-powered and planet-positive pantry staples like granola, avocado oil, pancake mixes - with the least impact on our environment. I need to get ready, look presentable and still get my children up and get them to school - all without making an entire mess of my apartment. 

7:15  AM

I'm showered and ready to go. Now it's time to get my children up and ready to go. Start making them breakfast. The easiest is possible. Smoothies (packed with everything they would never eat) and Croissant toast - it’s a thing. I also start making my kids lunches, but I'm careful not to mess up my kitchen since my kitchen island is full of about 60 bottles of avocado oil from West-bourne, as well as all their other amazing items such as their coconut Crumble and house granola. 

8:20 AM

I start reminding my children over and over and over (my 10-year-old boy/girl twins Jack and Nico) and over and over and over again - to put their shoes and socks on, brush their teeth, and grab their backpacks because we need to get out of the house

8:26 AM 

Out the door and on our way on the three-block walk to their school.

8:40 AM 

Camilla Marcus, the founder of West-bourne, arrives along with some other early arrivals.  

9:00 AM

A cavalcade of stylish, impressive and successful women start entering the apartment. Each grabs their cold brew and begins tasting all the amazing food provided by West-

bourne.

9:45 AM 

Introductions begin. It is an amazing event and so well attended beyond our expectations. We begin the Q&A and everyone has such amazing questions and tips to add about a product line and sustainability that it blows us away and the excitement around the brand is beyond our wildest dreams.

10:45 AM 

People slowly start trickling out, and my kitchen island that was once devoured by all the products, is now empty as everyone is excited to try everything that West-bourne makes. We take the last few selfies/photos so everyone knows we were there of course which include tote bags from my podcast, Takin Care of Lady Business.  

12:00 PM

Call with my editor regarding my upcoming book, my companion piece to Takin Care of Lady Business: How to Build the Matriarchy. I have a lot of work to do on it and a lot of follow-up from some guests but I'm excited that it is moving forward as quickly as it is.

1:00 PM

Time to record a podcast episode for my podcast, Takin Care of Lady Business, with the amazing Rebecca Minkoff! She of course nails it in less than the time allotted and realize she will be my 100th guest!

2:00 PM

Finish up some time-sensitive work for my clients’ Salt N Pepa – they have a big well-deserved deal coming up and has taken a lot of time and attention. Then on to phone calls and Zooms for the next three hours with clients.

5:30 PM

I am co-hosting a women-only dinner with UBS and The Justice Dept to introduce women in all different spheres of life to each other – you know, how the boys do it. We get the private room at Hancock Street, and the guests start arriving. It’s women in all areas in Venture Capital, founder of Caulipower brand foods, female executives wanting to learn angel investing and some who are looking for career changes – all in different industries.

9:00 PM – Dinner is finally over, and go home to kiss the kids and wind down for bed. It’s been a very long day.

How did you get your start in music?

I started in the music industry as a music attorney at the then-newly formed law firm, Codikow, Carroll, Guido & Groffman, LLP. Elliott Groffman had left the all-male (still to this day – no female partners) law firm of Grubman Shire Meiselas & Sacks to join

Rosemary Carroll, Michael Guido & David Codikow. I was a junior associate, and the first client I was asked to work on was a then-unknown JAY Z. I was tasked to clear the sample for the composition “It’s a Hard Knock Life” for his new song “Hard Knock Life” for his album Vol. 2: Hard Knock Life. From there, my career in music and in hip hop in particular, only grew.

I made partner in three years and amassed more amazing clients, from Mark Ronson to Method Man to Slipknot and Juliette Lewis. At the same time, I was representing executives that were negotiating their employment agreements with their respective employers. In one negotiation in particular, I was representing a female Senior Director for Universal Music Publishing in A&R named Rebecca Wright (she tells the story too and approves of me telling it too!). She had signed some big songwriters and made the company real money. Yet, they only offered her $90,000.

What was more infuriating is that I had just negotiated the deal for the Director, a level below Rebecca, for a man that hadn’t signed anything real to UMP yet, and he was offered $130,000 right off the bat. Needless to say, I pointed this out to UMP and instead of doing the right thing and increasing her salary said things like, “She’s fine with it, why do you care?”, and my favorite “Her husband makes a lot of money so she doesn’t need it”. You cannot make this shit up! They ended up giving her only $10,000 more, and that started my crusade to end the gender pay gap and the gender wealth gap.

I stayed at Carroll, Guido & Groffman (the name had changed by the time I left) for 11 years total after negotiating Jay Z’s deal with Live Nation. I went to Roc Nation as one of the first employees in 2010 as the General Counsel. In a matter of a few years, we grew the company and the value of Roc Nation exponentially. I was then promoted to EVP, Strategic Marketing & Business Development, where I helped other artists on our roster leverage their passions and community to build solid businesses outside of music.

During this time, I became a single mom by choice to boy / girl twins because of course I wasn’t busy enough. When they were about to start school, I decided to leave Roc Nation and figure out what was next for me – I had been working with Jay Z for 17 years at that point. I needed a new challenge. My passion for gender equality had only grown but I needed more experience outside of my comfort zone so I became the President of Corporate Development at Superfly – the live experience company known for creating Bonnaroo and Outside Lands. While there, I expanded my capital-raising abilities and my network of players in that field. I learned a new vertical in a creatives journey.

However, I was still making money for men by day and trying to overthrow the patriarchy at night. So when my three-year contract was coming up, and they didn’t need me anymore, the seeds of the Justice Dept were planted. So many women had come to me asking who they could hire as an attorney that understood them? Who could help them raise money or build their female-founded companies that understood their journey? Who could help them grow and hire the business people they needed they could trust and took them seriously. Thus, the Justice Dept was born! Our sole mission

is to make women rich so they can make the choices they deserve to make for themselves. We have never lived in a time of conscious capitalism – what happens when capital is in the hands of the others? Only one way to find out!

A woman/role model you admire (could be alive or dead)

I get asked this a lot and I can never choose just one. I admire all of us – what we do every day to get thru the day as women, mothers, wives, daughters, friends, employees – we deserve to be celebrated every day. We are all superhuman.

3 values that guide your life

I value having a stand and speaking up – advocating - especially now for women. Silence is complicity in my book.

I also value perseverance and loyalty.

Tips for staying grounded on a tough day

I allow myself to acknowledge it, give myself a break, stay off social media and know it will pass.  Tomorrow’s another day and we have work to do. Quitting isn’t an option.  

One piece of advice you'd give your younger self.

Believe in yourself, bet on yourself and trust your instinct. No one truly knows your strength but you. Embrace being underestimated. You are worth every dollar and at least 30% more.  Your words are important, your voice matters and the more we hire each other, buy each other’s products and invest in each other’s companies, the more those words and voices will be heard! 

Member Spotlight #43: Adel Hattem

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This month for our Member Spotlight, we are thrilled to feature Adel Hattem; the CEO and Founder of DMusicMarketing, an agency that develops both non-Latin and Latin talent in the Latin American market. Based in Miami and across Latin America, DMM offers efficient, dynamic and all-encompassing solutions to its clients in order to overcome and conquer the intricacies of the region. 

Adel is a bicultural marketing specialist with 25+ years of experience in the music industry. She has held senior positions with industry giants - she worked as Marketing Director for Universal Music Mexico, Vice President of Marketing for Latin America at EMI and Marketing Manager at BMG Entertainment- before founding DMM in 2013. While working with the majors, Adel helped develop and set a footprint in the market for talent such as Arctic Monkeys, Placebo, Coldplay, Robbie Williams, David Guetta, Norah Jones, and Katy Perry. 

With DMM she now works with renowned labels like the Beggars Group, Domino Recordings, Ultra, and the Secretly Group, and has a diverse portfolio of artists such as Björk, Franz Ferdinan, Idles, Radiohead, Helado Negro, Ela Minus, The National,  The XX, Bon Iver, Interpol, Sharon Van Etten, Steve Aoki and Jungle among others. DMM has seen exponential growth in the last couple of years with a local team in Mexico, Brazil, Colombia, Uruguay, Argentina, Peru, Ecuador, and Miami. DMM continues to expand as new clients arrive, eager to explore and discover their impact in the Latin American region.


My name is Adel Hattem, I am the founder of Dmusic Marketing. I am originally from Mexico City and have been in Miami for 15+ years. 

A typical day in my life as the founder of DMM begins at 5 AM with an invigorating hour of Kundalini yoga. Following that, I prepare school lunches and accompany my teenagers to school. Three days a week, I prioritize my physical well-being by engaging in a workout session from 8 to 9 AM.

Once 9:15 AM rolls around, I kick off my workday. This entails a series of Zoom calls involving clients, media representatives, DSPs,, as well as virtual team meetings with our diverse team of 15 professionals situated across Latin America. Throughout the afternoon, I dedicate myself to answering emails that have accumulated throughout the day, while also staying in touch with our promotional team in Mexico and tending to clients based in LA or Australia.

As the evening approaches, my work pace gradually slows down, at this point, I shift my focus to preparing dinner for my family, enjoying the precious moments spent with my husband and children. Following our evening meal, I find solace in winding down with a book. 

What are some tips for getting a first job in the music industry?

Resilience and perseverance were key factors that played a pivotal role in my journey towards securing my first job at a label. Following the initial job interview, I demonstrated unwavering determination by consistently following up, effectively showcasing by passion and commitment to the industry,

Can you name a few women you admire?

I admire all the women in my life and all the women I know. I can see in each of them the success they have achieved and the challenges they overcome. I see the success of one is the success of all, and I believe that if we support each other, we can become the best version of ourselves. The teachings of one of the women that helped me in the past ten years (especially when I started my own company) are still very relevant and helpful in my daily life, although she passed a few years ago. I find particularly admirable her ability to blend ancient spiritual practices with modern technology and culture. She has been able to create a community that is inclusive and welcoming while also pushing the boundaries of what is possible in terms of personal growth and transformation. She has been a vocal advocate for women's rights and gender equality, both within the yoga community and beyond.  I also admire my mother in particular. I am forever grateful for the inspiration my mother has provided through her resilience, unwavering optimism and tireless work ethic. Her love and support have been instrumental in shaping the person I am today. 

What are some values that guide your life?

I dedicate myself to fostering an environment of empowerment and collaboration, constantly striving to provide support to my team. In my view the concept of competition pales in comparison to the value of constructing a community rooted in transparency and honesty. 

Do you have any tips for staying grounded during the day? 

  • Deep breaths.

  • Meditation, good diet, a good sense of humor and good people around you.

  • Separate work from homelife, don’t take everything so seriously.

  • Positive thoughts - even when life seems impossible always look at the positive.

What would be a piece of advice for younger self?

Don’t overfill your schedule or workload. Work a little less. Enjoy time and the present. 

Do you have a favorite song to wake up to?

Wake Up Boo! by The Boo Radleys.

What would be your most memorable experience whilst working in the music industry?

I have had so many incredible and memorable moments seeing emerging artists grow, fans using music as a healing tool and seeing executives grow and develop. One of the most memorable experiences in my life so far was rising above the gender expectations of my ex-superiors and colleagues from my last corporate role by starting my own business as a mother of three. I was told that I should no longer be working as I had children, and I wanted to prove to my own young kids at the time, that you can create your own reality. That if you love something enough and you dedicate yourself to it, you can achieve anything.

Connect with Adel on LinkedIn and check DMusic Marketing HERE.

Read more about the shesaid.so Miami Chapter and sign up HERE.

Member Spotlight #42: Rebecca Jolly

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Rebecca Jolly is a global business consultant focused on innovative brand solutions across the music, publishing, and entertainment industries. She's worked for and with music entities including Beatport, Mixmag, Spotify, ID&T and MassiveMusic in London, New York and Amsterdam. Her brand work extends into some of the biggest global consumer brands including Microsoft, Budweiser, Samsung, Diageo and New Balance.

Rebecca is the founder of music and brand consultancy called Sounds Nice, and her work has been featured in Billboard, Entrepreneur, and Music Week. Rebecca speaks regularly on industry panels, including Cannes Lions, SXSW and ADE, and has also featured as a guest lecturer at NYU. Rebecca lives just outside London with her family.

Describe a day in your life as a music business consultant.

My days are a juggle of wrangling kids, meetings, writing time and occasional networking and events. As many in the shesaid.so community will testify, being a working mum is a fine balance that can tip from uber productive to complete chaos in a nanosecond!

After I ship the kids off to school, I try to schedule an hour of exercise - either yoga, a spin or strength class and some cold water therapy to clear my head and get me ready for the day. Carving this time is a luxury, but it makes me so much more productive during the day, and more willing to pick my laptop up again in the evening if necessary. 

From here, I usually have a few hours of meetings - most days, these take the form of calls, but I usually spend a day or two a week in London for some necessary face time (done over delicious food and coffee if possible). These meetings can be a mix of speaking with the partners I work with - music media companies, labels, sound agencies or the new music conference I’m involved with, and also brands I’m leading cultural strategies for. A lot of what I do is built around that sweet spot where music and brands can work together to create impact, so these meetings can range from presentations about strategies and plans, updates on product and program developments, briefings and pitches.

I recently published a book, so after a quick lunch break and dog walk, the afternoon is usually spent focused on writing - either on the development of a second book which is currently in the works or perhaps for a feature or column. A couple of days a week, I also tend to have a podcast interview record or will be speaking on a panel or at a virtual town hall (including the shesaid.so community town hall!), which makes up the rest of my day till school ends. 

After a flurry of homework, dinner, bath and bedtime - I sometimes have a call or two in the evening as I work a lot with partners in the US, but usually, just cook up a storm before crashing with a good book or in front of the TV (Succession series 3 HELLO) with a nice glass of red.

How did you get your start in music?

I started to dip my toe in the music waters a few years before formally starting to work in the industry. I began promoting music nights while at university in Manchester - I worked with the guys at Fat City Records up there for a while and also put on a few of my own music nights. I moved to London and initially started working at a brand advertising agency while spending late nights and weekends running a couple of electro-punk nights at 93 Feet East and 333 Mother Bar in Shoreditch. They were wild days - the stories! In retrospect, this period probably started to fuse the music and brand worlds in my head though I don’t think I realized it at the time.

After a few years in London, an opportunity came up to move to Amsterdam and join the team at ID&T, looking after a global brand partnership they had with Samsung for their Sensation events. This really solidified my interest in this space - looking at how the involvement of a brand, if done correctly, can really facilitate and evolve the music space - either through commercial investment or also resource and infrastructure against research, development, product and marketing. In those days brand / commercial was still a bit of a dirty word in the music industry - the legacy of clunky sponsorships and brands plastering themselves over festivals or content, but I think ID&T really lead the charge with thoughtful brand integrations and the understanding that a brand can be an essential part of the music ecosystem - which has only become more clear in recent years are the industry model has shifted.

I moved back to the agency world in London for a few years before relocating to New York to help launch one of the agency clients into the US market - a little-known streaming platform called Spotify…! I ended up spending a decade in New York - after Spotify rolled out in the US, I rejoined ID&T as their partnership lead for the festivals they were launching over there - Mysteryland, Sensation and Tomorrowland, and from there took a role as US CEO of Wasted Talent -  Mixmag, Kerrang! and ultimately The Face - sitting across offices in NY and LA. 

A real back and forth between brand and music worlds - ultimately leading to the creation of my own consultancy back in the UK, building strategies and partnerships in the space - and writing a book about it, another lockdown author!

Tips on finding your first music job?

For me, everything is about a combination of knowledge and network - you need to know and understand music, and you need to start to build your community. After a couple of decades working in music, it’s rare for a project to land on my table that hasn’t come through my network (many of which are ultimately friends these days). And as I start to build out and embark on programs, the people who come to collaborate with me on them are from the same network. It really is key. In terms of knowing the space - you don’t have to know which area you really want to work in or what your specialism will end up being - this will inevitably change and evolve over time - but get under the hood, drive your passion forward - intimate knowledge of the scene, artists, creators will pay dividends. 

Then work it! Keep yourself front of mind with people, make yourself useful - indispensable, even. Offer to help out on events or projects, keep abreast of hiring and opportunities, become part of communities like shesaid.so that offer a front-row seat to many industry happenings and positions. But in the same breath, I will say it’s a small industry of well-connected people - keep your approach focused and thoughtful. 

Essential things you always carry with you in your bag

Well, I kind of have two bags, so it depends on when you catch me! On the weekend with the kids, it tends to be snacks, snacks and more snacks. In my regular bag, however, the non-negotiables I will always be found with are headphones, not just for listening to music and podcasts, but also to help focus on work when I’m on the move or in busy places (I work best, particularly deck writing, to really loud electronic music mixes - Fred Again and Sherelle are my current faves). Lipbalm, I think I have an addiction. And my phone, because what can we even do these days without it?

What does community mean to you in one sentence?

It means help, support, solidarity, and the ability to find a familiar face in a room wherever in the world you might be - which really is priceless.

Connect with Rebecca on LinkedIn

Website:

www.soundsnice.co

Member Spotlight #41: Insights from ESEA Music Founder Tiger Hagino Reid

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Tiger is a Japanese British artist manager, creative producer and campaign manager based in London. Her artist roster is Rina Sawayama, Yaeji, Lucinda Chua, Bat For Lashes and Tohji. She also co-founded ESEA Music, a community which aims to provide better representation for ESEA (East and Southeast Asian) artists and professionals based in the UK music industry.

shesaid.so: What inspired you to create and to co-found ESEA Music, and what are your goals?

Tiger Projects was more of a necessity at first tbh. My time at XL Recordings was coming to an end. I’d worked for someone else my whole career in music and wanted to go at it alone. It was super daunting at first. I had this negative thought pattern that artists only wanted to work with me because I was part of this cool record label. It was also during the Covid-19 pandemic / recession. In addition to all that, your trad record labels tend to keep their marketing /project management roles in house, even when certain artists could benefit from more specialised and tailored expertise. Labels can justify out of house PR + radio but in my freelance role it's pretty rare. All in all it’s not easy.

My goal for my own business was to build a roster of artists, the way I see PRs do it. I wanted to choose the artists believed in and politically aligned with. I wanted to work with Asian artists, not all, but predominantly.  I also wanted to get back to Japan as often as possible and ideally out to Asia too :) After a year out on my own I have no regrets! I’ve got so much more fire for what I do and I love the roster I have built.

As for ESEA Music, we set it up because there was no one collectively repping us in the industry, from the workers to the signed and grassroots artists at all. We’ve now got over 220 members in the group, just teamed up with Spotify for a showcase, added the first ever ESEA representative on the UK Music’s diversity taskforce, and recently been awarded the Community Grant from WeTransfer’s The Supporting Act Foundation.

shesaid.so: What are some of the biggest challenges you've faced while working in the music industry?

Big Q! So many everyday challenges of sexism, lowkey racial discrimination and microagressions. Dealing with the #metoo experiences of the industry esp in the 2000s. More recently becoming a mother, and turning 40. But shout out to those who have faced way more challenges than me. 

I’m middle class, my pop is an white academic, and I have had four years of private education under my belt. But my biggest challenge still was at the intersection of a very British classism, whiteness and patriarchy that runs through the British music industry.

This quote from Rosanne Mclaughlin’s book of art criticism, that talks about the notion of double-tracking describes succinctly how the ‘coolest’ gatekeepers of the music industry, with more of an ambivalent relationship to their privilege, function.

“To double-track is to be both: counter-cultural and establishment, rich and poor, a bum with the keys to a country retreat, an exotic addition to the dinner table who still knows how to find their way around the silverware.”

I think I might leave it there…

shesaid.so: What are your thoughts on the current state of the music industry?

I think we’re all experiencing a background and or frontrow burnout, from having to create, commission, request, strategise the roll out of content or assets as we like to call them. I’m trying to unlearn the word asset, when it comes to the art that accompanies the music. 

Of course being an artist is not just about making the music, however, the money needed, the experience and time needed, as well as the amount of CONTENT + ASSETS required across the gazillion of platforms that host music related work is exhausting.

There is also an added pressure and sometimes assumption that artist esp women should also be a visual artist and multidisciplinary, and aim to be called words such as creative polymaths.

I won’t even get into the pressure of TikTok.

Rina Sawayama

shesaid.so: Who are some of the artists you've worked with that you're particularly proud of?

Firstly, Rina Sawayama :)  To see an Queer Asian popstar in the UK slaying has been so life affirming. Her album ‘Hold The Girl’ released last year, was the highest UK chart position for a Japanese artist ever.

She’s an artist that knows the power of popular culture, in the way that legendary Cultural studies scholar, Stuart Hall frames it! “popular culture is one of the sites where this struggle for and against a culture of the powerful is engaged: it is the stake to be won or lost in that struggle”

I wrote a long ass essay about Rina’s and Queerness in Japan for my MA. Japan has a lack of any national LGBT laws, ranking second to last in LGBT rights among the 40 wealthiest nations. At summer-sonic in Tokyo last year, I helped write the speech that Rina delivered at her first ever show in Japan! It was an incredible moment, we cried, it trended on twitter, it is part of the movement towards a better and fairer society for all people in Japan.

Secondly, Lucinda Chua. I am constantly in awe of Lucinda for her ability to channel her vulnerability into her work. Esp when I find my own vulnerability so difficult to share. But what I really appreciate is working with someone who mirrors back the feeling of in-betweenness that many mixed heritage folks experience. It's a feeling of not being whole that I've felt for so long.


shesaid.so: What are the biggest challenges East and Southeast Asian artists face in the music industry today?

I would say the biggest challenge facing East and Southeast Asian artists in the UK is representation and visibility of our creativity. We need more mainstream British ESEA artists. How many can you name? We have a handful of the mainstream UK ESEA artists right now, Rina Sawayama, Beebadoobee, Griff and Jax Jones. However, from what I see through ESEA Music, there is this huge gulf between the artists I just mentioned and all the new artists and grassroot artists coming through. So the biggest challenge is a lack of representation of us in British music culture. As Beabadoobee told Music Week, “Filipina girls telling me I’ve inspired them to pick up a guitar or that this music can be for them really means a lot to me, I didn’t have that sort of representation growing up and so I very much want them to have it.” 

Secondly we’re not seen as the creative ones. In a nutshell, the experience of ESEA folks in the UK (especially the middle class) can be described by the phenomenon of the 'model minority myth', where we are seen as palatable to the white majority only insofar as we are hardworking, studious and quiet. As Dr Diana Yeh, a Chinese British academic, describes ESEA cultural practices as '"visible but unseen", present in the social and cultural fabric but rendered invisible within the social and cultural imagination.' It's about including ESEA people in the cultural imagination. I love the way Lucinda Chua put it in her gal-dem piece, “Representation isn’t just about diversity, it’s the ability to see yourself outside of yourself, the encouragement to dream and desire.”  

shesaid.so: What can be done to improve the representation of East and Southeast Asian artists?

At ESEA Music we are attempting to improve this by uplifting the whole community through the work we do. To give two examples, we run an internal mentorship scheme called Sesame, which provides mentorship between more established artists and emerging artists, as well as between music industry professionals and artists. We’re developing this scheme to run publicly this year. 

Secondly, we run ESEA Writing & Recording Camps, which is the brainchild of artist Lucy Tun, British/Burmese musician and in-house engineer at Urchin Studios. The intention with the writing camp is to bring together the many talented artists within ESEA Music and provide the experience of session work, writing together, being creative, trying new genres. We’re got a whole series going out in the summer this year and I’m so so so excited for them!

My own personal hot take too is that if you are Asian or ESEA and work in the industry at a mid - high level, that if you just pivoted even as little as 5% of your workload to work with an ESEA Artist or volunteer your time to ESEA music, that stark lack of representation would start to look at whole lot better. 

shesaid.so: What is the most important aspect of effective artist marketing and management?

Artists are the best at marketing their own music. I learnt that at XL Recordings and especially from Sian Rowe.

All you have to do ask the right questions and listen to them. First of all it’s often all in the music or in their lyrics. If not it's in the everyday conversations you have with an artist. Not the ones where they are under pressure to sell what they do. It’s in those moments of quotidian work. Sometimes it’s just telling them that you found their idea, positioning or thought interesting. I think any of us artists or not are just looking for our internal worlds to be validated. To have someone believe in us.

shesaid.so: What is the most important thing for artists to keep in mind when trying to break into the industry?

The most important thing is to keep on going, it's a marathon not a sprint. keep on creating and making and putting it out there.  Also to add that  finding a good team is vital. That doesn't have to be an strictly industry person, like a lawyer or booking agent. But it’s about building your community around you, from your band mates, creative collaborators, music making team. The folks that really help you create the art. Even when you ‘break’ in you still need your people around you.

Member Spotlight #40: Kaitlyn Davies

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For this month’s Member Spotlight we spoke to Kaitlyn Davies (she/her), a Canadian based in Lisbon, where she works and collaborates at the forefront of music and technology. She explores this nexus through research, facilitation and community organising in her roles at Friends With Benefits and Refraction DAO’s, and hosts radio shows on Refuge Worldwide and Cashmere Radio. Kaitlyn was kind enough to tell us more about her work in web3 and beyond, as well as to share some of her learnings and advice from her career so far.

shesaid.so: Tell us a little more about yourself, and your career journey so far.

Kaitlyn: Hi! I’m Kaitlyn, a Canadian based in Lisbon via Berlin, New York and London. I got my start in the music industry helping out at a university radio station in Toronto while I was in high school, which led me to an artist and brand development company where I held roles across public relations and artist management. I was feeling the itch to engage with bigger markets and live outside of my hometown Toronto, and ended up moving to London, UK in 2016. My time in London started out with me working in film festivals, but I could sense I wanted to be back closer to music. Through a stroke of luck and good timing, I ended up in the Boiler Room offices (which is where I first got introduced to shesaid.so!). Boiler Room was a wild ride and I spent time in both the London and New York offices over the course of the next 2 years, while also working on summer music festivals back in Canada. My visa in the UK was coming to an end but I wasn’t ready to leave Europe, and decided to move to Berlin in 2018. In Berlin I switched from working primarily in events and marketing to the recorded music industry, where I spent time in the !K7 Records offices before landing in the digital content operations department at SoundCloud for three years. 

While I was at SoundCloud, I started a collective, CO:QUO, with two amazing humans + fellow shesaid.so members, Mel Powell and PortraitXO. Our focus is to facilitate events, conversation and practice-based education across music, technology, art and science, and we’ve collaborated with artists, collectives, brands, and governmental funding bodies to bring our thinking to life. Operating at these intersections with CO:QUO and alongside some personal research, I inevitably ended up exploring blockchain and web3 technologies at the beginning of 2021. This research culminated in a series of digital events I produced with the collective exploring the future possibilities and limitations of technology for the music industry. This marked the beginning of my professional journey in the space, where I now work with and for two cultural DAO’s (Decentralized Autonomous Organizations) Friends With Benefits and Refraction leading membership and curatorial partnerships, respectively. There is so much more to be said in between all of these lines, but an interest in the way humans, communities, art and technology interact has been the driving force behind what I do, why I move, and why I stay up late on the internet or at the rave. 

shesaid.so: What do you consider some of your greatest career achievements, and why?

Kaitlyn: Although I’d consider CO:QUO more of a personal project than career achievement, starting the collective has opened so many doors and given me the opportunity to pursue ideas collaboratively. I’m so proud of the work we’ve done, from our first residency at the Night Embassy to our monthly radio show on Refuge Worldwide.

This summer, I had the pleasure of working on the programming team for the inaugural FWB FEST in Idyllwild, California. The extended Friends With Benefits fam gathered in the forest for some big discussions, wicked musical performance, and one of the most magical sunsets I’ve ever seen. Pulling off this event with our dream team, and receiving positive feedback from our community was a big career highlight. 

Literally, the day after FWB FEST ended, our curatorial team at Refraction huddled up to begin decision making on our Creative Grants programme, which has been such a rewarding process from day dot. The programme has allowed us to decentralize our operations and collection, while supporting members of the DAO in realizing creative projects all over the world. The redistribution of capital and lowering barriers to entry are a huge part of why I decided to get involved in web3, and this project has helped drive that mission. 

shesaid.so: What are some of the challenges you've faced, and how have they shaped you and your career?

Kaitlyn: I started in the industry pretty young and often found it hard for people to take me seriously. I won’t say those days are totally over, but I’ve grown into my various roles over the years and know how to stick up for myself after living and working through those interactions. 

The music and creative industries are incredibly precarious and extractive. Taking on second (and third, and fourth) jobs, having projects fall through at the last minute, and the personal and nepotistic nature of the industry are all realities that can be very unkind to workers. Thankfully, these realities can have silver linings. Getting to work across disciplines, on varied projects, with people I’m lucky to call friends keeps me motivated. 

shesaid.so: Your career to date has spanned several areas of the industry, from the intersection of music and tech as well as research and community. What are some of the key skills that have helped you get where you are today?

Kaitlyn: Staying organised, curious, and positive has brought me a long way. Spreadsheets are here to help and have helped me manage big projects and keep track of ideas and resources. When my curiosity is dwindling, I know it’s time to pick up a book or trawl a dark corner of the internet. Keeping a (mostly!) positive outlook helps me drown out a lot of noise. 

Criticism is care, and being open to feedback is really important. I tend to go all-in on projects, and can put blinders up which don’t allow me to collaborate or work effectively. It can be tough to hear, but it’s important to stay in service of the project or community you’re trying to serve, not yourself. 

shesaid.so: Here at shesaid.so we continue to curate informative and discursive Web3 content which has inspired questions from artists, managers, labels/publishers and more. For those dipping their toes in to Web3, could you tell us a bit more about your work in this space so far and any ways people could find out more?

Kaitlyn: My work in web3 focuses around community stewardship, curatorial practice, and knowledge sharing. Admittedly my financial literacy could be better, and my technical skills aren’t as sharp, but I’m working on it! An amazing aspect of the web3 community is how willing folks are to help and answer questions. 

In my experience, it’s difficult to toe-dip without totally diving in, but a great resource for folks at all levels of web3-knowledge and across different industry sectors is the research and Discord community stewarded by the folks at Water + Music. I am always referencing their published research, and the discourse that goes on in their Discord is impressive. 

Friends With Benefits and Refraction also have editorial arms that are publishing thought-leading ideas around DAOs, online artist communities, and creative uses of technology that readers might find illuminating. 

shesaid.so: Can you tell us about Refraction and what we can look out for from the community?

Kaitlyn: Yes! RefractionDAO is a group of artists, culture workers and creatively inclined people collaborating on ongoing events, releasing NFT projects, and producing written, visual, and audio content around art, culture, and music today. We’re enabled by blockchain technology, meaning that we have a governance token called $REFRACT, which helps us compensate community members for their efforts, while increasing their say in DAO-wide decision-making. We primarily convene on Discord and at in-person events around the world. 

We’ll be closing out the year with Refraction Festival Miami during Art Basel, and a series of events in Tokyo accompanied by an NFT drop of the artwork displayed— stay tuned! I also mentioned our ongoing Creative Grants projects, which you can check out here.  If any of this sounds interesting, you can apply to join the DAO here. 

shesaid.so: You host radio shows on Refuge Worldwide and Cashmere Radio. What kind of music are you loving at the moment that we can expect to hear from your shows?

Kaitlyn: Big love to recent albums from Lucrecia Dalt, Sudan Archives, Moin, Marina Herlop and Alex G. I’ve definitely been in a moody guitar music and power pop phase recently after a summer of listening to a lot of UKG and techy-house mixes on SoundCloud. I am near constantly digging through Discogs and record store bins (I’ve been regretting not buying an All Saints 12” all morning), and am as big a fan of older releases as I am of new ones. Have had Brigitte Fontaine’s 1972 album Comme à la Radio and Little Annie’s 1992 Short and Sweet on repeat recently. Expect to hear all of this on upcoming radio shows! 

shesaid.so: Can you share one piece of advice that has stayed with you in your career and why was it impactful to you?

Kaitlyn: Being resilient is everything, and chasing your dreams is hard. There are ups and downs in every career path, but the creative industries are never-ending roller coasters. Realizing that it’s a skill and not a given to navigate the bumps has been integral to the way I go about my day-to-day. 

shesaid.so: Which people in the music industry are you inspired by, and why?

Kaitlyn: Holly Herndon, Mat Dryhurst, Liz Pelly, David Turner, Cherie Hu, Elijah, Bas Grasmayer, PortraitXO, Sarah Farina, DJ Sprinkles, Hanif Abdurraqib, Bob Boilen, Jessica Hopper, Kathleen Hanna, Patti Smith, Neneh Cherry, Britney Spears. Tirelessly, relentlessly, doing their thing. 

shesaid.so: How can people reach you if they want to connect?

Kaitlyn: Always there when you call, always online. 

Words by Clare Everson

Member Spotlight #39: shesaid.so Parenthood Committee

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Cristina Malaspina

This month for our Member Spotlight, we are thrilled to shine a light on the shesaid.so Parenthood Committee and the brilliant people who run this integral and supportive community.

The committee was formed to provide an open platform to empower parents in the music industry, through sharing experiences and ideas, thus working towards a more accessible and sustainable music industry for parents. It’s a forum for sharing best practices, resources, dedicated events and panels that aim to help parents in the music industry to thrive in their professional and family life.

And for anyone hoping to speak to like-minded people or be part of the community, we have a new parenthood WhatsApp group launching, which we’d love you to join! Keep an eye out for the official announcement of the group coming up on the 5th of September via our shesaid.so channels.

In the meantime, read on to get to know three of our parenthood committee: Robyn Stewart, Kayleigh Ramchand-Bentley and Cristina Malaspina. We hear how their careers across different sectors of the industry have presented their own challenges for parents, which I’m sure many readers will relate to. And for allies working in a business with parents, we ask what others can do today to better support their colleagues and work towards a more sustainable industry for all.

shesaid.so: Please can you tell us a bit about yourself and your career/life to date?

Kayleigh Ramchand

Robyn: I have been working in the music industry for 20 years, in talent buying, event management, fund development and organization direction. I am currently moving from my role as the Executive Director if the Western Canadian Music Alliance to Executive Director of Women in Music Canada. I am passionate about supporting young talent and seeing their dreams come true, about making connections between folks to see business grow and connecting with like minded partners to build relationships. In a personal level, I am a heart disease survivor, a mother of 2 boys, Jasper (11) and Ty (3) and an avid traveller and knitter. 

Kayleigh: My journey in music started 10 years ago as an artist. Whilst trying to navigate the industry as a creator, I took on an entry level role in music rights management - I never thought it would be forever but learning the ins and outs of business became my passion. Since then, I’ve worked with some of the world's biggest artists & songwriters and their teams in a variety of roles, all whilst doing my best to empower underrepresented talent within the industry, through committee work & collaboration with great as organizations like shesaid.so. With a two year old daughter, and another one on the way, life is certainly a different type of hectic than it was 10 years ago, but making time to support accessibility and inclusivity within the industry has become more important to me than ever. 

Cristina: I currently lead two parallel careers, in tech and music. At Google I work for the Brand & Reputation marketing team in Milan, driving brand equity and reputation to position Google as a loved brand among Italian users and institutions. As a side job, I am a DJ and producer; I have released music with Crosstown Rebels' Rebellion, Bondage Music and host regular mixes on radios like Ibiza Global, Data Transmission and Sonica. This summer you can find me at Hï Ibiza one Saturday per month, opening for Damian Lazarus and guests in the club room, and a bit all over the world.

shesaid.so: What made you want to join the shesaid.so parenthood committee?

Cristina: I started DJing during my maternity, and since then I have been leading two careers while being a mother. I think that initiatives like the parenthood committee are strongly needed in an industry where there is very little support for parents, women tend to wait to have kids because of lack of job security and support and, especially for DJs, there is a general misconception that being an artist and having kids are two incompatible things. Back in early 2020 I had a chat with Andreea Magdalina about this topic and we convened that setting up a Committee to safeguard the interests of parents would be strongly needed to pave the way for a more inclusive and family-friendly industry.

Robyn: When I joined, I was just off maternity leave with my second child, now 3, and also have an 11 year old. As a mom in the industry almost every decision, be it with traveling, taking leave, staying out late or generally when to have children to begin with. I have learned that family balance needs to be a priority at all times and I want to be a support to other parents or prospective parents who also have careers in music. 

Kayleigh: I became a mum two months into lockdown 1.0. It was a time that felt very isolated, especially as not many of my peers (least so those in the industry) had even thought about having children yet. I think the pandemic forced the industry somewhat to recognise family needs as everyone was stuck at home homeschooling and managing life as best they could, but in May 2020 (when we all still thought things would be back to normal by the end of the summer) I really struggled to find a community to lean on, which is when I came across the shesaid.so Parenthood Committee. 

shesaid.so: What have you seen as some of the major or common issues for parents in the music industry?

Whether you are a creator or working behind the scenes, lack of flexibility is a huge factor, and barrier for entry into music. In an industry where the line between work and personal life is often blurred, work life balance is something that’s been spoken about a lot in recent years, especially in regards to mental health, but we’re still struggling to see the industry respond in a way that takes into consideration the specific needs of parents and caregivers. As Kayleigh mentioned earlier, the pandemic forced the industry’s hand in a lot of ways to adapt to a more flexible way of working, but coming out the other side there’s still a lot to be done in all sectors of the music business to ensure that parents can maintain a healthy and successful work and home life.

shesaid.so: How do you think the music industry could do better for parents?

Whilst there is now an open discussion about Diversity and Inclusion themes, parenthood is a topic that is currently being left out of the discussion; we need more awareness and acknowledgement that parents do exist. So often we are made to feel like we need to hide that part of our lives for fear that it will be detrimental to our career development, which often means our basic needs are not being met. If we take the live sector as an example, so many parents have to choose between sacrificing their family life or their career once they have children because the sector is very inherently un-child friendly. But this doesn’t have to be the case. Better managed tour schedules, riders that include suitable family accommodation and budgets that cater for childcare are all things that could be the difference between someone giving up a lifelong career and thriving as a parent and working musician.

Robyn Stewart

shesaid.so: Is there something that others who aren't parents can do tomorrow in their job to be a better ally to colleagues or clients who are parents?

There are some really easy things you can do to be an ally: 

  1. Just asking about someone’s children is a really easy way of showing a parent that they don’t need to hide such an integral part of their life. 

  2. Understanding a parent’s need for flexibility and being mindful of their time - a scheduled meeting over school pick up time is not ideal, and neither is an end-of-the-day call that’s running overschedule when you know you have a grumpy toddler ready for bed!

  3. Tell parents they are doing a good job! Often we feel like we are balancing two lives and struggling to keep hold of both - some words of encouragement could go a long way!

shesaid.so: What are your aims with the parenthood committee and what have been your most recent developments/initiatives?

We want to make the music industry more family friendly. There’s a lot to be done, but the very first step is to establish a platform where music industry parents can be heard and supported. With this in mind, on 5th September we will be launching our shesaid.so Parenthood Whatsapp group: a safe space for parents of all genders in music to connect & share their experiences.

shesaid.so: What can parents get out of the shesaid.so parenthood community?

We are here to provide a supportive and open platform to empower parents in the music industry. We hope with the launch of the Whatsapp group, we can really listen and lean into the needs of the community and have that guide our goals as we develop as a committee.


shesaid.so: What can members look forward to from the committee in the coming months/year?

We’ve been busy this year working with the wider shesaid.so team to finalise our long-term goals for the committee. What stood out most to us was the lack of targeted research and data around parents in music. We want to be a key player in driving this research so we can help more effectively guide the industry in supporting parents and measure the impact of this work. 

Mental health & well-being is also a big focus for us. We’ve been working with a number of organisations and potential partners to discuss the ways we can support our community, including funded hotlines, workshops and 1-1 support.

Finally, the live and events sector is another key area for us. We want to work with venues and promoters to create a framework for more family-friendly events & inclusive working terms for parents in the sector, including dedicated family spaces & childcare options.

shesaid.so: Do you have any advice or support links/materials etc. for any parents reading this?

It’s easy to feel isolated and feel like there is nowhere to turn. Don’t be afraid to reach out to people in the same position as you - quite often they’ll be feeling the same and up for a virtual coffee! As parents within the committee we’ve really found a lot of comradery and support in just having these discussions with each other and other organisations working towards similar goals such as PIPA & Pregnant Then Screwed in the UK; Mama Psychologists in Canada; and Parenthood in Music in Germany. 

shesaid.so: Your proudest moment/achievement to date?

Robyn: This is very hard to narrow down. I am most proud of the team I have build at BreakOut West. As I leave there I am excited for the family I am leaving behind and the accomplishments in supporting young innovators and creators. Also, I am proud every time someone asks me how I make this all work with two little boys at home. It means I’ve fooled them. Haha. We all “make it work” because its so worth it to raise good humans.


Kayleigh: Professionally, being able to see the impact first-hand of outreach and mentorship initiatives I have been involved with has definitely been the biggest highlight. It’s a privilege to see someone’s career go from strength to strength, knowing that you have played a part in supporting them. On a personal level, my daughter is now two and really into music. I feel proud that my husband (who is also in the industry) and I have been able to pass on our passion to her at such an early age. I’m really excited to see her love of music grow and see where it takes us as a family. 


Cristina: Probably receiving a call from Damian Lazarus and getting his invitation to hold a monthly residency at Hi Ibiza, now named the best club in the world. This is something that happened very unexpectedly, as it also was when Damian followed me on my Instagram after two months from submitting my demos to the generic Crosstown email address. More in general, being able to lead this career on top of my full-time job and doing my best to be a good mother and wife makes me proud. 

Keep an eye out for the official announcement of the shesaid.so parenthood whatsapp group coming up on the 5th September, via our shesaid.so channels.

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For more information about how to become a shesaid.so member, check out our website.

Member Spotlight #38: Sarah Stam

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On the music industry, representation, cancer recovery and The k*tkanker Book Project

Sarah Stam is an Amsterdam based music enthusiast who launched her own boutique artist management company set the tone . over five years ago. With a background in marketing, branding, PR and project management for international record labels and music brands, Sarah worked with companies like Spotify UK, Armada Music, Armin van Buurenand labels like UKF, NCS and TheSoundYouNeed amongst others. With a focus on developing young, independent talent, set the tone’s roster includes electronic producer Ellis, jazz fusion artist Hemai and R&B/soul vocalist Laura Roy amongst others.

Sarah was working as a freelancer in the music industry during the pandemic , when in November 2020, she was diagnosed with metastatic ovarian cancer.

Sarah says: “During my recovery process, I tried to find hope and inspiration in other women’s stories who had been through a similar diagnosis, because I had no idea how I was supposed to handle everything that I was faced with. As it turns out, there is so much medical information about cancer, but very few resources to help women through the day to day process, both in terms of practical and emotional sources.”

So she decided to create that resource herself, resulting in the k*tkanker book project.

The book touches upon more than just the medical trajectory. Sarah says: “We explore experiences of life with and after cancer. How do you deal with the mental issues that you face after your medical journey? What does the disease do with your sense of feminity and sexuality? This project is here to explore all different types of perspectives to such questions and offer a safe place or recognition for all types of women. A project with 50 different portraits of women between the ages of 20 and 100 years old with cancer from all walks of life.”

Read on for our Member Spotlight with Sarah.

shesaid.so: Can you tell us a bit more about your career journey to date and what you’ve most enjoyed?

It’s interesting as I always knew I wanted to work in music from the age of like 12 years old, but being from a small hometown in the north of the Netherlands I never thought I would be able to. I didn’t know anyone in music growing up so it seemed always like a bit of a dreamworld to me in all honesty. I had no idea which jobs were even out there. When I was 15 years old I visited my first festival in the Netherlands, watched Justice and guys like the Arctic Monkeys perform, and I thought to myself: This is the coolest thing ever. I know I don’t have enough talent to be on the stage, but those guys hanging on the side of the stage, maybe I can be like them. I studied general arts and management, and ended up doing my master thesis about streaming platforms. Bluffed my way into Spotify London at the time, when there were like 4 people working there, and that kinda kickstarted it. I definitely learned the most during my time at Dutch record label Armada Music, grew an international network, worked directly with artists and their managers, and got to know everything about the creation and marketing of music. After that I decided to start my own boutique artist management company set the tone. and it’s now exactly 5 years ago I signed my first artist and producer Ellis in London. There is honestly no place I’d rather be in the world right now then what I am doing right now, I can hardly believe I get to do what I get to do half of the time. To witness music being created, setting up the studio sessions, hearing the first session bounce, to then releasing music, putting it out into the world and seeing your artists perform: there is honestly no greater joy in life for me personally.

shesaid.so: What are your biggest learnings or top tips for artists/labels wanting to nail their marketing and branding?

Well that is a great question, with no timeless answer obviously. It’s hard to answer this without going into cliches, and throwing in words like authenticity or real connection with fans. I think my own biggest takeaway from the past few years is everyone is always following trends. but only a few are setting the trends. Do what feels authentic and natural to you, don’t look at others too much. Definitely always invest in growing those channels you control yourself, like soundcloud and youtube or your own Artist Spotify Playlist, so many people often only focus on those things out of their control. And honestly, if you plan timely you can achieve so much. I’be had the pleasure of working with and consulting for some fairly big artists and labels out there, and where it often goes wrong is bad communication and last minute planning. That’s an easy takeaway.

shesaid.so: You have been heavily involved in shesaid.so and she.grows, heading up shesaid.so Ams. What was your motivation to be involved, and what have you been most proud to work on or achieve?

Heading up the Amsterdam chapter of shesaid.so was an absolute pleasure. After meeting founder Andreea at a music conference in Norway and learning about the amazing mission and vision she had for the community, I couldn’t not fall in love with the community and it was an honor that she asked me to start the Amsterdam chapter at the time. We’ve had the pleasure to do some amazing real life events, but the she.grows mentorship program during ADE and Eurosonic were definite highlights, it is just amazing to connect women from all walks of life and see them help each other move forward.

shesaid.so: Throughout your career, what kind of progress have you seen in the industry in terms of equality, diversity and inclusion?

SS: Honestly, not as much as I would have hoped for. It’s shocking to realise it is 2022 and still 80% of the artist managers or music lawyers I deal with are white men. But it is on the other hand hopeful to see more and more companies trying to make an actual change by including more women in their boards as well as appointing diversity managers within their team.

shesaid.so: Can you tell us more about The k*tkanker Book Project and your journey behind it?

SS: Unfortunately I got diagnosed with metastatic ovarian cancer in November 2020, and instantly had so many questions, which started quite plastic (how is my scar going to look, how do you deal with hair loss from chemo) to later more mental focussed questions like: how do I live my life with cancer and how do I go about the insecurity of it all? Although there is a lot of medical information about cancer, I couldn’t find sufficient information about life with cancer. Evenmore so, most medical websites and information flyers are filled with stories from 65+ year old white women. I knew that if I was struggling to find any inspiring role models to gain courage from, this would be even more challenging for women of color. Hence I thought to myself: if I survive this treatment period, I will have to do something that ads to a more divers and inclusive information source about women with cancer. hence I started the k*tkanker project with an amazing team of friends and professionals. K*tkanker is a book and photo exhibition authored by 50 women between the ages of 20 and 100 years old who are battling breastcancer of a form of gynecological cancer. Fifty powerful, inspiring portraits and short stories that includes an additional section with over 100 tips of useful websites, smart insights and practical tips for women with cancer. You can support our project by donating to our crowdfund (https://www.voordekunst.nl/projecten/13688-ktkanker ), we need to hit 80% to make this special project a reality. First copies are in Dutch, but you can opt in on an English version of the book through our website: www.kutkanker.com

K*tkanker book project

shesaid.so: How has it been for you to work on the project? What have you learnt about yourself or otherwise?

SS: It’s been such an interesting journey honestly. I feel blessed to have connected with so many likeminded women, to hear so many different stories and learn that I am not alone. And the team of professionals working on this, dedicating their time and energy, and asking little to nothing in return, has been a very humbling experience. They are all such amazing professionals, and together we were able to capture 50 completely individual, different and divers stories. The days when we did the photoshoots for this project have been absolutely magical and special. To have 50 women who all are transformed by this horrible disease, open up and share their most beautiful and vulnerable self has been a unique experience I will carry with me forever.

All these women struggle with their cancer diagnosis on a day to day basis, and so many wished they had a book like this during their process, as it is so important to recognize yourself in someone else. Furthermore, I’ve mainly learned that making a book is way more work than I anticipated and that unfortunately the medical world is still very much behind when it comes to diversity and inclusivity.

shesaid.so: What do you hope it will provide for others?

SS: Speaking to over 100 women, I learned everyone missed something. Myself, I missed a powerful photo of someone who had a temporary stoma (colostamy bag) like myself but who would still go out, work out, travel, go to festivals and date for example. One of the black women in the book shared a very personal insight, saying she “never saw a black person on TV with cancer, thought all her life it was a disease for white people”, showcasing the lack of diveristy in imagery around women with cancer. Or someone else sharing she couldn’t find one photo example of how her scar would look on her pigmented skin after her mastectomy, being a Surinamese Hindustani (not sure this is the right ENGLISH translation) woman. I hope we can make a real change by telling these 50 real life stories and showing 50 powerful portraits of 50 incredible women, who happen to have cancer.

shesaid.so: How can people support the project? (Internationally too)

SS: People can donate to our crowdfund (https://www.voordekunst.nl/projecten/13688-ktkanker ) to help bring this book to life. We need a lot of money, due to the fact that we worked over a year on this book with a team of 12 people doing research, interviews and shooting 50 portraits, combined with relatively high paper prices due to COVID and wanting to create a high-quality full-color photobook for a reasonably low price so it’s accesible for all people at €29,99. You can pre-order a dutch copy of the book through the crowdfund, but also simply donate money without purchasing a book. Internationally, people can opt in on an English translated version of the book through our website (www.kutkanker.com), if we hit 100 opt ins, we’ll get the book translated and shipped internationally.

shesaid.so: One piece of advice that has impacted you?

SS: Fake it till you make it. To an extent. I once heard this said by someone who explained it as: of course don’t lie or get in over your head, but honestly the majority of people don’t know what they are doing, so be confident and know you can probably figure it out along the way. This has really resonated with me, especially when I started for myself as an artist manager, having only a record label background. The older I now get, the bigger the boardrooms I find myself in, the more I realize that indeed a lot of people don’t know what they are doing and you can figure it out along the way. Be informed, be on point and do your best, and you can basically do anything you set your mind to.

shesaid.so: Any music you currently have in heavy rotation that you’d like to share with others?

SS: I just went to Governors Ball in NYC where Tove Lo absolutely blew me away, what an artist, a proper rockstar of our time. Same for Ashniko, amazing performer. And a nice summer song to have on repeat is “Nobody” by Quentyn and KEV!

. . .

Here are those links again to support the k*ktanker book project:

You can support our project by donating to our crowdfund (https://www.voordekunst.nl/projecten/13688-ktkanker ), we need to hit 80% to make this special project a reality. First copies are in Dutch, but you can opt in on an English version of the book through our website: www.kutkanker.com

Member Spotlight #36: Erika Montes

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Erika Montes — VP, Artist Relations at Soundcloud

Erika Montes is the VP of Artist Relations at Soundcloud, where she is in charge of building and maintaining SoundCloud’s relationships with artists, managers, producers, and agents. We spoke with Erika about her experience working with artists like Rihanna, how she pivoted from working at record labels to working in music tech, and why budding executives should fight for their fair share.

Erika Montes

shesaid.so: Tell us a little more about yourself, and your music career journey to date.

Erika: I have now been in this industry for over 20 years — 22 to be exact! I started out as an assistant at a latin label back in 1999. Then in 2001, I went over to Def Jam to do Video Promotions and I was there for close to 10 years. It was the best boot camp I could ask for! That place taught me almost everything I know (the good, the bad, and the ugly) and also gave me some of the most memorable moments of my life. Maybe one day I’ll write a book. From there I went over to Fuse, a music TV channel, and then over to LoveLive, a Creative Agency, where I got to dip my toe into the agency world. While I was at LoveLive, I got a call from a recruiter at Soundcloud to work with someone who I had met during my Def Jam days and I could not pass up the opportunity. I had been wondering whether I wanted to continue in music and thought, well I haven’t ventured into tech so I at least have to try it. Coming to Soundcloud reignited my love for music and the best part is that I get to work with ALL kinds of music. On the daily I have a team where we listen to every single genre imaginable and get a first hand look at what is bubbling under on the platform that will dictate who we will be listening to a year from now.

shesaid.so: What do you consider some of your greatest career achievements, and why?

Erika: There are so many to mention because the experiences keep getting better. I’ve had the honor of working with some of the biggest names at the beginning of their careers like Rihanna, Fall Out Boy, and Kanye West. To watch them become as huge as they have and know that I played a tiny part in that is a feeling I can not describe. Recently though, I’m really proud of the team I’ve built at Soundcloud and coming into my own as a manager. Encouraging and passing on the knowledge that I’ve learned to the next group of music executives is key to making this a more inclusive and empathetic industry.

shesaid.so: What are some of the challenges you’ve faced, and how have they shaped you and your career?

Erika: You name them, I’ve faced them. Being told that I would be submitted for certain power lists and not others because I’m Latina, and not because of the work that I’ve contributed to a particular type of music. Being marginalized in that way is very difficult. Knowing that you’re not being paid enough for the jobs and positions you’re being promoted to. I am very vocal and will make sure to stand my ground and ask for what is right and what I know I deserve, but I know that is not the way we are conditioned. My mom taught me to be vocal but at the same time not ruffle too many feathers. As I grew more, I started to see the major discrepancies in salaries between men and women and then men and women of color, and I quickly realized that everything is negotiable and first offers are just a starting point in negotiations. And not just for myself, but making sure that I’m sharing that with my friends, my colleagues, and making sure that my team members get what they deserve.

shesaid.so: Who in the music industry are you inspired by, and why?

Erika: I find inspiration from the incredible friends that I have been lucky enough to build friendships with in my career journey. There’s nothing better than finding a community where you push each other to be better, to want better, and to pass that on to the next generation.

shesaid.so: What do you hope to see more of in the music industry in regards to latinx/hispanic representation?

Erika: I want to see more places where we get to celebrate each other and our wins. Some great friends of mine, who are part of the group that inspires me, started the Asian American Collective, and they’re always encouraging me to start the LatinX version and I think about it daily especially right now as we celebrate Hispanic Heritage Month. That will be my goal and future contribution. Putting it in writing!

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Become a member or find out how to support shesaid.so here.

Member Spotlight #37: Maria Gironas

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Senior Media Partnerships Manager, Creators and Artists at Reddit

Maria Gironas

For Latinx and Hispanic Heritage Month, we’re spotlighting inspiring latinx and hispanic people making waves in the music industry. Maria Gironas is a Senior Media Partnerships Manager for Creators and Artists at Reddit, where she works with creators to onboard them onto the Reddit platform. Maria spoke with shesaid.so about her past life as a touring musician, her experience living with anxiety and depression, and her vision for latinx representation in the music industry.

shesaid.so: Can you tell us a little more about yourself, and your music career journey to date?

Maria: I started my career as an artist signed to a small label, and it changed my life. I got to play shows, tour, produce, and learn the nitty gritty on what it meant to be an artist. The crazy thing was, I was 11 when that all started. I was a kid being told what to wear, to write about honest feelings, to balance school and social life, and couple that with both the weight and honor it is to be a child of two Bolivian immigrants. It was a lot. I fell out of love with the idea of a musician, and fell in love with the idea that I could work with artists and creators to protect and honor their visions. My career since has been about two things: 1. Empowering creators and artists through embracing technology and data and 2. Elevating marginalized communities through all the work I do. Those north stars have brought me to companies like Reybee as a publicist, Fender in social media, YouTube in artist and creator development, Q&A/Human Resources on platform partnerships, Wide Eyed Entertainment in marketing, Downtown Records in DSP strategy, and now, Reddit heading up talent partnership efforts.

shesaid.so: What do you consider some of your greatest career achievements, and why?

Maria: Honestly, in my wildest dreams, I would have never thought to be in the place I am in my career. This might sound silly to someone reading this, but I am in a constant state of gratitude for my life, and I think I’d be lying if I wrote out what my greatest career achievement was, because just living right now, in the moment, feels like the biggest win of all. Young, little Maria would think this current Maria was pretty awesome.

shesaid.so: What are some of the challenges you’ve faced, and how have they shaped you and your career?

Maria: I’ve had a winding mental health journey my whole life. Through therapy, medication, and support from my friends and family, I’ve been able to manage my anxiety and depression. I’m grateful to say I’ve had some incredible bosses who were very open to letting me share my struggles and allowing the space to take a step back when I needed to. But, there were many, MANY, moments where I just didn’t take care of myself and it manifested into panic attacks, obsession, intrusive thoughts, and distancing myself from the people that cared about me. I think because I went through all of this, I can see when others might need space to feel heard and seen. Sometimes, gentle conversations on mental health could be allowing the space and time to properly ask, “how are you doing?” Within the Latino community, there is an unfortunate stigma surrounding mental health that is slowly being corrected, but still has a long way to go. All we can do sometimes is create space and give space, and I have known those simple actions to change the course of my life and career.

shesaid.so: Who in the music industry are you inspired by, and why?

Maria: My parents, Carla and Ramiro Gironas, are the people that inspire me the most in all aspects of my life, hands down. Within the music industry, I am the luckiest human on earth to admit that I have been truly blessed to have friends and mentors like Jenna LoMonaco, Rachel Stoewer Poston, Beka Tischker, Irene Richter, Jessica Rivera, Brooke Rascoff, Julie Nguyen, Sam Juneman, Rebeca Leon, Chelsea Dankner, Jordan Federman, Vatana Shaw, Erika Montes, Danielle Jimenez, Doris Munoz, Ana Maldonado, Ranya Khoury, Daniela Sala, Livia Piomelli, Tayla Ridley, Emily Garibaldi, Madilyn Bailey, Evange Livanos, Brynn Elliott, Kristin Gregory, Jensen McRae, Grace Adeyemo, Noreen Prunier, Kat MacLean-Daley, Ritz McCain, Blair Miller, Jordana Golub, Jamie Hart, Caroline Trujillo, Tenille Arts, Michele Stephens, Satasha Torres, Jillian Newman, Julie Gurovitsch, Brittany Crawford, Phylicia Fant, Erin Hanson, Lauren McKinney, Nicole Barsalona, Grace Segundo, Cecille Crisostomo, Sara Dempsey, Jackie Yaegar, Grace Roslovic, Shaun Alexander, Evangeline Elder, Whitney-Gayle, Benta, Niki Pittelli, Chelsi Zollner, Cecilia Winter, Julie Ciccarelli, Melanie McClain, and so so so many more. Remember these names!

shesaid.so: What do you hope to see more of in the music industry in regards to latinx/hispanic representation?

Maria: I want to see our community represented in all genres of music on all sides of the business. Latinx and love metal? Manage a metal band. Latinx and love pop music? Start a pop label. Latinx and love pop punk music? Start a pop punk band. Let’s spread our culture far and wide!

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Become a member or find out how to support shesaid.so here.

Member Spotlight #28: Cherie Hu

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For this month’s shesaid.so Member Spotlight, we are featuring award-winning journalist, researcher and entrepreneur Cherie Hu. Hu has been covering the nexus of music, technology and business for over five years. She runs the music business newsletter Water and Music and has bylines in Billboard, Forbes, NPR Music, Columbia Journalism Review, Pitchfork, Rolling Stone, Music Business Worldwide, Variety, DJ Mag and more. We spoke with Cherie about the future of newsletters, the difficulties of freelancing, and where new media is heading.

shesaid.so: What do you consider some of your greatest career achievements?

Cherie Hu: I think my greatest accomplishment to date is simply that I’ve been able to maintain a full-time freelance/independent writing business for my entire professional career so far, including two years of sustainably running my own company. Given the precariousness of the digital media landscape, especially amidst the COVID-19 pandemic, I feel extremely fortunate to be in a position where I can build a more entrepreneurial career around cultivating my own voice, as well as elevating other people’s voices and perspectives that wouldn’t otherwise see the light of day.

Thinking to specific milestones around my newsletter, I monitor the business side of things on a daily basis, and am really proud of its recent growth (we’re at around 1,300 paying members as of reading this article, versus around 200 members a year ago). But in terms of what really feels like an “achievement” per se, I realize I’m more motivated by reaching the right people than by reaching the most people. If I can consistently get my analysis and reporting in front of even just a few C-suite executives at top music companies, and/or if I inspire one new emerging artist or manager every week to think about the music industry in a different way, I consider that a success.

shesaid.so: Newsletters are growing in popularity, and you are the founder of your own newsletter, Water and Music. What do you like about the newsletter format, and where do you see the newsletter trend going?

Cherie Hu: It’s funny that something like email that has been around since the 1960s is now considered a new hot trend in media and technology. I think what feels “new” about email in the current climate, and what I appreciate about the format from the perspective of growing my own newsletter brand, is its immediacy and intimacy. Email allows you not only to speak directly to your audience one-to-one, but also to have much more transparency about whom your message is reaching and how they are engaging with that message compared to what you would otherwise get on social media. Because the nature of email distribution is much more intimate and lean-in — subscribers opt in themselves to follow a given newsletter, and each issue lands in their own inbox, which they’re checking multiple times a week if not every day — the quality of engagement is also much higher from the jump.

It might not seem like it, but the personal nature of an email newsletter — which can sometimes feel like reading someone’s journal — is also a major advantage for B2B and industry-facing media.

I think articles and conversations about the future of the music business can have more impact and reach more people when they’re less buttoned-up and more personable and accessible.

As for general newsletter trends, we’ve seen tons of well-known writers move away from legacy newspapers or magazines to start their own paid newsletter publications, often in the process making a higher equivalent annual income than they would have at their previous full-time jobs. I think this ongoing exodus and the inspiration it sparks will lead to a boon for niche digital media. Music is definitely part of this wave, with newsletters like First Floor (electronic music), Penny Fractions (the business of music streaming), Cabbages (hip-hop) and Music Journalism Insider (news, job opportunities and interviews related to music journalism).

In response, though, I think several larger publications will see the value that these writers see in their editorial independence and direct audience relationships, and try to lure these same newsletter writers back with a better job offering and more infrastructural support. Running your own newsletter is certainly freeing from a creative perspective, but you also have to front the bill for health benefits, editing, legal and accounting support and more — i.e. you have to act as the de facto CEO of your own business, which isn’t the right fit for every kind of writer. Forbes recently launched its own paid newsletter platform where writers receive a guaranteed minimum full-time salary and split additional subscription revenue 50/50 with the publisher. We’ll likely see more publishers experiment with these kinds of models in the coming months as they seek to compete on trust, a more important currency than ever in the modern media landscape.

shesaid.so: Have you ever made a mistake in your career that turned out to be an invaluable learning experience? Could you tell us about it?

Cherie Hu: There are too many to list… I did a bit of reflection recently and realized that all of the mistakes I’ve made in my career can be mapped to one or more of these four factors: 1) not trusting my gut and intuition; 2) procrastinating and sitting too long with my decisions; 3) being afraid to say no; and 4) general miscommunication. The learning experience, which is still in progress, is all about the value of being confident in what is best for yourself and communicating that knowledge transparently with others. Otherwise, the mutual empathy required for great creative or commercial collaborations is impossible to achieve.

shesaid.so: How would you like to make an impact on the music industry?

Cherie Hu: Generally, I’d like to open up people’s eyes not just to the trends that are happening in the music industry in the present, but also to what is possible in the industry’s future.

I’m most motivated by writing articles that encourage people to experiment and innovate, instead of being stuck in what are considered “industry-standard” ways of thinking and doing.

Countless other fields outside of music look to us to take the pulse on where culture is moving next, and I think we as an industry have to take that positioning and responsibility as innovators seriously, on the playing fields of both creativity and business.

I also hope to inspire other fellow women, Asian Americans and minorities generally to carve out their own paths in the music industry, and to show them how leaning into their fullest selves and identities is more of an asset in the industry than ever, not a liability.

shesaid.so: What are your tips for others starting out in your area of the industry?

Cherie Hu: In my opinion, as the music industry grows, so will the market for its media. It might not immediately seem that way, especially with several music-centric alt weeklies and indie publications closing shop in the past few years. But I think part of this decline is due to an overreliance on business models that inherently treated media and criticism as a commodity — whether through click- and ad-driven success benchmarks, or through private equity firms buying out local newspapers and wringing them dry.

I might be biased, but I think now is an amazing time to build alternative kinds of media companies whose content and business models inherently fight against commodification. In other words, the media companies that thrive are highly specific and insightful about the audience they’re speaking to in a way that competitors can’t replicate, and then monetize those connections in a way that optimizes for depth and quality of engagement.

With that in mind, probably the most cliché-but-true tip I have for those who want to carve out their own path in music media is to own a niche that you’re passionate about.

Read all the major music and entertainment publications out there voraciously, study what they’re good at — and then pick up on their blind spots. What angle on the music business is nobody writing about, but is hiding in plain sight right beneath our feet?

For me, when I first started out around 2015, a major blind spot in music-business journalism at the time was consistent coverage of startups and technology. There are tons of other potential examples: for instance, I would love to see some more independent music writers focus on the evolving business of songwriting and producing, or on specific revenue channels like livestreaming and merch, or on creative trends in specific geographic regions that are “trending” in the industry right now but tend to be misunderstood or misrepresented (e.g. Africa, Asia, Latin America). Above all, chase the perspectives that cannot be commodified.

Member Spotlight #7: Sarah McBriar

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Sarah’s work is a no-brainer for her. After traveling the world and working/learning with others in the festival industry she identified a need, channeled her passion and created her own version. Sarah’s audio, visual and arts festival, AVA Festival, will be in it’s third year this June.

The multifaceted structure and creative energy that pours from the festival comes from the best origin story there is: a group of friends coming together to do what they love and know best. Talking to Sarah, you get a real sense of confidence and willingness to dive in no matter the challenge. Passion is the driver, the rest will fall in line…

By: Zoe M

What was your experience like starting off in your career? Were you anxious, passionate, confident?

Sarah McBriar: When I started I had a lot of fun! I have always cared a lot about my work — so being passionate about what I do is really important to me. Like anything, the unknown is fun, and slightly scary but that’s what gets you really into it!

You’re coming up on the third edition of your Northern Ireland audio, visual and arts festival — AVA Festival… can you compare your first year of the festival with this latest edition? How have you grown and what have you learned since you first started up?

The Festival has grown a lot. When we started back in 2015, it was really all mates, both the DJs and attendees. Now — going into year 3, we are really honoured to continue to grow and invite International artists such as Jeff Mills and Marcel Dettmann, and continue to book the best emerging talent and established talent in Ireland.

What inspired you to start your own festival? How does AVA set itself apart or what is the overall goal of the festival?

I had worked on festivals in mainland UK, at Glastonbury, Block 9, MIF (Manchester International Festival) and Warehouse Project. I had travelled to many in Europe too, Sonar etc. I wanted to create a truly creative electronic music festival, merging the music with the visual art. I didn’t think that one existed in Northern Ireland, and I wanted to create a platform for all of the incredible talent coming out of Ireland, as there was so much — for those within Northern Ireland and those who had left but were doing great things elsewhere… a reason to come back and showcase their work. So AVA was a response to wanting to create this.

Working in the festival circuit, there obviously comes that time of the year when a festival is nearing its start-date and things get particularly crazy — what are some things you to do keep your wits about you?

Exercise. Chocolate. Yoga & meditation (need to do more of that!) Laughing with my Girlfriends.

How have the positions you held in the past set you up for success in running AVA Festival and/or starting your own festival?

My previous experience has played a huge part in setting me up. I worked for the Block 9 team for 6 months on Glastonbury which in my opinion is the best festival in the world, it’s a mini city set up for 5 days — it’s incredible. I supported the core team and assisted the producer, working on the pre-production, understanding the level of detail required and the time it takes, along with on-site experience. I also worked for MIF [mentioned above] which is such an incredible event, across 3 weeks — across the city, a combination of interesting spaces, arts & music and International debuts of work! It really is one of the best. I worked across a series of events on the operation side in a voluntary capacity and again learnt from the scale and variation of the projects and sites.
Similarly, I was part of a team who developed a tourism project within City in Manchester, which grew across 4 years. I learnt a lot about teamwork, marketing, staff and operations and the business side of things which really taught me the other side of running a festival — and the major challenge of staying within budget.
I have also lived in a number of cities… Belfast, Manchester, London, Barcelona and Vancouver — learning lots about different cultures and art forms, and about tourism; all areas which really feed into developing a festival!

What are the most important takeaways you’ve been able to transfer from these past experiences to running the AVA Fest?

1. Have a core ethos, both in how you programme and how you manage — and keep to it! It is what you are and what you will be long-term!
2. Develop strong relationships that last long term — value you them, they stick with you.
3. You have to watch your budget every day.
4. Enjoy it. If it doesn’t make you happy — something isn’t right!

If you could pick one — what artist, that you’re featuring at the festival, are you particularly excited about?

Jeff Mills [also mentioned above] — he is debuting a lighting and live project with the incredible Parisian lighting designer Guillaume Marmin — I can’t wait to see this.
… Also Fatima Yamaha and New Jackson!

What are some lesser-known, but equally amazing festivals out there that we should know about?

Sacred Ground in Berlin, Field Maneueuvres and Love International!

Why do you think we’ve seen the popularity of festivals rise on the recently? Do you think it has to do with the live music aspect? Brand partnerships? What’s your insight/take on this?

I think the whole industry has grown. I think people love to experience music in a live capacity, as music is so easily and readily downloaded, people seek the live experience now. The growth of the sector, the opportunities there are for festivals, interesting spaces and live acts has all led to the growth of festivals.

What are you currently listening to on repeat?

Hammer’s latest track: MANAKA
New Jackson’s latest track: ANYAS PIANO

Who/what gives you strength?

Great vibes, great music, a class team, amazing friends!

What else should we know about you or what you’re currently working on?

The AVA emerging talent competitions are super special. Since starting in 2015, we have found some serious talent!
PLUME is a collaborative project I work on with Oisin O’Brien where we create art directed, high impact visuals, installation amongst other things- it’s super exciting work and was born out of working together on the festival.

The AVA Festival runs for June 2–3 in Belfast.

Tickets here | Lineup here | Watch the AVA highlights of 2016 here